ChatGPT: Friend Or Foe For Marketers? | Lindsey McGee | Power Lounge S2E12

Join us as we discuss the tension content marketers feel between the opportunities ChatGPT, the fears that surround it, and how to use it well.

THIS WEEK'S TOPIC: 

Content marketers, have you embraced ChatGPT? Does it make you fear for your content-making future? Fear not. In this session, we will cover what to avoid and where it can truly be helpful. We'll also share how content marketers can discuss ChatGPT with leaders.

THIS WEEK'S GUEST: 

Lindsey McGee is an experienced content marketing leader with expertise in SEO, writing, and strategy for B2B technology brands. Her work includes positions at startups and multinational enterprise corporations; she has also worked for herself as a freelance writer and SEO consultant. Currently, Lindsey is the Content Marketing Manager for Obie, an insurance technology provider that offers an affordable, and transparent insurance experience for landlords and real estate investors. Lindsey gets to spend plenty of time with her two cats and dog in her home office, and in her free time, she can often be found baking or curled up with a good book.


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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00:08) - Welcome to our Weekly Power Lounge, your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn, and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. Join the movement at www.togetherindigital.com. Let's get started today, content

Speaker 2 (00:00:52) - Marketers, we're

Speaker 1 (00:00:53) - Talking about chat, G p T.

Speaker 2 (00:00:55) - Have you embraced it yet? Does it make you a little nervous or feel fearful for your content making future? Or have you dove straight in and learned the ins and outs of it and finding ways to make your life easier? But what are the pitfalls? What are the things we need to be watching out for? As everything you know in technology continues to progress, uh, we want to really cover what to avoid and where things like this could be truly helpful. So we are here today with Lindsay McGee. She's an experienced content marketing leader with experience in SEO writing strategy for B2B technology brands. Her work includes positions at startups and multi international enterprises, corporations. She has also worked for herself as a freelance writer and s e o consultant. Currently, Lindsay is the content marketing manager for Obie, an insurance technology provider that provides, that offers affordable and transparent insurance experience for landlords and real estate investors. Lindsay has, uh, spent plenty of time with her two cats and a dog in her home office and in her free time, she can often be found baking or curled up with a good book. That sounds great, right about now, Lindsay, as we get into the long weekend, thank you so much for today, . It is

Speaker 3 (00:02:09) - So wonderful to be here. I'm really, really excited about this. It's such an important topic for everyone to understand, especially for content marketers, but really for anyone in the digital space who, who wants to know what's happening on the internet right now? It's a big topic.

Speaker 2 (00:02:24) - It is a very big topic. In fact, some of us, um, just went to here in Cincinnati, an in-person event, um, just talking about ai. Um, and again, I'm just floored at, you know, you think you're on top of things and then you hear other people speak and the ways in that they're using it. It was just kind of mind boggling. It was definitely in ways that I hadn't considered. So I feel super primed and ready. Oh, I wanted to share one quote that I did hear from yesterday that I thought was really interesting, and you might all find a little comforting content marketers, is that AI will not steal your job. People who use AI will  or people know how to use AI well. So I'm glad that you all are here and you are chatbot Curious  or chat G p t. Curious. Lindsay, why don't you share with our listeners a little bit more about your experience in content marketing and how you've seen things evolve over the years before we kind of dive into the whole AI chat G P T topic?

Speaker 3 (00:03:19) - Oh my gosh, yes. So I've been in the content marketing space since 20 15, 20 16, and it's amazing how much it's changed in the past, you know, eight, eight ish years, uh, eight, nine years. It, it really used to be that content marketing was this sort of nice to have addon. You know, we knew that there was a great r o I for it, but typically it took a backseat to kpc and all these other strategies that were, that were more of a focus at the time. Uh, and then you had of course, seo O and SEO was really viewed as a very separate thing from content. You had the blogs you were writing, and then you had seo. Yeah. And the key words and the optimization that was happening was very strategic in that way. Um, then we came into the phase of content is kink content is everywhere.

Speaker 3 (00:04:03) - It's everything that you need to be doing, and it's all about production, production, production. How many blogs can you possibly get out there? How fast can you get them out there? And then what do you need to do to make them perfect and rank perfectly? And now we're seeing a shift more towards intentional content creation. I know we originally met at Content Marketing Institute's, uh, content Marketing World last year. They were talking about this a lot. Mm-hmm. . Uh, it's not about just production, production, production, it's about focusing on the user intent and understanding where they're coming to you and why they're coming to you, and then having your content operate across different channels. So really repurposing things, updating things, distributing it, and thinking about where and how you're distributing your pieces of content. And of course there's a production aspect to all of that, but it's not so much focused on output as it is focused on impact.

Speaker 3 (00:04:51) - Mm-hmm. And that's been really wonderful to see. And we're seeing this really wonderful combination of, of content and seo. So I see a lot of content marketers who are really getting into the SEO side of things and understanding the analytics of it and the science and the art of it coming together. And we're seeing Google really, uh, be appreciative of those things. The helpful content update was huge for content marketers to understand, hey, how we're writing things and how we're talking to people is just as important as the keywords and the speed and all of these other things. Um, and they're heads up to everyone. There's another update to the helpful up content update coming sometime this summer. So it really is important that we think about content in a really intentional way.

Speaker 2 (00:05:32) - Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I started off as an SEO copywriter when I first got into the agency, and I think it really helped me understand the importance of strategy and content. Mm-hmm.  and brevity, you know, because it is, it's almost strategy. It's all figuring out, you know, how to get people to the content, not just creating it Right. But bringing them there. And I love that. And now that you mention it, I really don't know, were we talking anything much AI at Content Marketing World last year? I mean, this was September of last year. No,

Speaker 3 (00:06:00) - Not long ago. Yeah, no, the, the AI conversation began, it launched in November mm-hmm. , and then in January it exploded. Yeah. Uh, at least to my knowledge, maybe there were people who were on it in November, but I wasn't really in it until until January. I

Speaker 2 (00:06:14) - Mean, it was being developed, it was in beta, but yes. Mm-hmm. . I mean, it's just one of those things where it was like kind of just on the periphery, this idea of ai. And, you know, even at together digital conferences in the past we've had talks about bots from a service, customer service and social media standpoint. But yeah, I mean, just how fast, I mean, we always know that we know that this industry changes fast, but I mean, for the almost 15, 20 years I've been in it, I don't know. I mean, I don't know that I've seen something kind of come in so fast and so furious, and it's, it's pretty exciting, at least in my opinion. I realize it's probably scary for some too. But, um, kind of just thinking through that, what are some of the key challenges that you have faced in adopting new technologies like, you know, chat, G p T, or, um, I'm trying to think of anything that like, does personalization, optimization, like there's been so many things over the years that have just come out of nowhere mm-hmm.  and like make us reevaluate our entire workflow and approach.

Speaker 3 (00:07:08) - So honestly, the biggest challenge I have is that these kinds of tech innovations, especially in the AI world, they're very shiny. And when I say they're very shiny, I mean, they grab attention in the news, they grab attention on social media. So your execs are seeing this before you've had a chance to get to know about it, to test it, you know, with the most marketing technologies, if you think about something like HubSpot, orent, rush, or these other pieces, usually there's a whole process before buying them where you're tinkering with it and testing it, and you're proving this could be useful in this way and learning about it. This is totally the opposite. This is execs are coming to you saying, there's this thing and you should be using it right now. And they don't have all the information. They have the buzziness of it, essentially.

Speaker 3 (00:07:52) - Um, so they really wanna jump on this trend, and they may not have had some of those deeper conversations. The other issue with these viral technologies is that they often come with a huge amount of misinformation. So everyone wants to jump on the trend, which means, so do all the publishers and the creatives out there. So everyone's creating guides and tactics, and here are a million use cases you could have for this. And the reality is, some of those use cases make no sense. Mm-hmm.  when you actually do the research into it. But it's so hard to start digging it through and saying, what is real and what is fake, and what is marketing as a marketing person? What is just marketing? Right. So, um, so I, for me, the viral technologies, the, I want to look at it from the perspective of I need to get into it immediately.

Speaker 3 (00:08:37) - So the moment that I heard that people in my business were talking about it mm-hmm. , I took an entire day of my, of my work and I said, I'm not doing anything else today. I am learning about chat g p t today. And I read as many things as I could. Um, not only about the idea of chat C p T, but also about AI writing tools in general and the models that they're built off of and how those models actually work. Because when you get down to the programming side, and, and I'm sure we'll talk about this more, when you get down to the programming side of large language models mm-hmm. , there's less marketing around a boring, you know, topic about coding and stuff. Yeah. But it's more realistic in terms of understanding the limitations and things of that nature. So I'm also blessed because I have programmers in my family, so I was able to go to them and say, what do you know about this?

Speaker 3 (00:09:20) - And, and what should I think about? Um, the other thing is, it's just very scary. Um, this is probably the first time that I've seen something that made me feel very threatened as a writer. Um, we saw this a lot with artists, with the AI generated art that we've had. Right. Artists saying, well, why are they gonna come to me and pay all this money when they can basically ask a robot to emulate my style and sort of steal my style a bit? So there was a little bit of that, it's gonna take my writing, it's gonna repeat what I've said, and also it's gonna replace me. And we saw companies that were, that were happening to have layoffs right around the same time that they were also implemented at G B T. So it was really difficult from that perspective mm-hmm. . And then as a researcher, it's also very difficult because now I don't know when I'm reading and when I'm researching topics for content that I'm making, was that created by an ai?

Speaker 3 (00:10:07) - Was it validated? Is it accurate? And that all becomes a lot more difficult. So it was definitely really difficult. The ways that I have gotten around it are just being as informed as possible, staying up to date on it, seeing what other marketers are saying, and taking every single thing with a grain of salt. Yeah. And always coming back to this is how the model works. And also reading a lot of stuff that OpenAI has put out, because they've put out a lot of, their data's gonna be the most, the most relevant we have. We hope that they're being as transparent as possible. So far they have been. So they put out a lot that talks about the limitations and the ethics and these things about their own, uh, product. So it's really comes down to education.

Speaker 2 (00:10:46) - I think that's so true. I, and you bring out a a good point as a, a marketer, content marketer, whatever, like you are playing this dual role. It's a double-edged sword of being a somebody who's learning something literally right then and there, but then also having to educate at the same time, like while you're learning. And that's hard. Yeah. And so I really like your tempered more measured approach to all of it, because, you know, taking time and carving time out to say, I, I need a day. I need a day to like, take in and learn this and know this and understand this. Because to your point, um, you don't wanna be fearful. You don't wanna hold back from it because clearly people are going to be pushing for it because there is so much conversation around it. Um, and we love our big shiny objects in this industry.

Speaker 2 (00:11:24) - Even though we create them, we fall for them too. Um, but the fact that like, there's not a lot of legalities and or regulation around that kind of content, what's being generated, which is being created yet. Because again, like, I mean, technology moves fast and the rest of our systems like government move really slow. So for us to be able to kind of trust what's always being put out there, I think it's a fair call. And it's, it's a good important point to make. How do you perceive chat two p t's impact on the future of content creation now that we're kind of like in it and you've had a little couple of months to start, um, to be able to see what, what's good, what's bad? Do you have any genuine concerns for contents?

Speaker 3 (00:12:08) - I am honestly a little less concerned than I, than I have been when, when we've chatted previously and, and less concerned than I was at the beginning. At the beginning I was pretty doom and gloom, honestly. , uh, you know, I love writing and it's the core of what I do. Yeah. And I just felt like, you know, I was seeing large companies that were choosing to do that instead of have writers. And that was terrifying to me. And B2B tech, you know, over this past six months has been having huge layoffs anyways. Yeah. So it was a very scary time because you have essentially this bot that's being told to everyone can sound just like you. Um, and so can it replace you? Um, the more I read about it, the more I started to understand its limits. And that really helped. But there has already been a huge impact.

Speaker 3 (00:12:53) - Um, one of the studies I was reading, it was from Resume Builder and they did something back in February, they did a survey and 48% of their respondents said that they've replaced workers with AI writers. And that, you know, I remember at the very beginning people telling me it's not that big of a deal. It's not gonna really have an impact on people. You know, I just started ob 30 days ago when I was looking at opportunities. There were jobs that said, experience in AI prompting is required. Yep. Uh, so it's, it really is out there. It really is a thing. You're not gonna be able to ignore it, unfortunately. Uh, and there are companies that are going to choose to have fewer writers and to choose to have their writers act more like editors mm-hmm. . Um, which, which is not what I wanna be doing all the time.

Speaker 3 (00:13:34) - It's just editing what a robot has to say. Right. Uh, so I really hope that I will be at companies where I'm able to have that, find that balance. And, and I do think the other flip side is some companies are starting to find a balance. They realize that an AI is not going to have the same impact as a writer who can think and brainstorm and come up with innovative ideas. Um, you will need people to edit even if you were using AI all the time. But there are situations in which it's just not the right method. Um, so there are a lot of companies that are starting to realize that. And there are companies that have gone the chat G P T route who are now, you know, hiring people back because they're realizing, oh, you can't just hand something off. So, um, but I also think, so there is a real concern.

Speaker 3 (00:14:19) - I also think in terms of the future of content creation, it will help with some of those really repetitive processes. Yeah. So, you know, some of the getting the ball rolling, you know, when you write in run into Writer's block because you are, you know, writing PPC ads and you need to write the same unique proposition 50 different ways so that you can a b test it, you might run into some writer's block and it's okay to have something help you with that or, um, it's really fantastic at translation. So there are a lot of different ways that you can use it that can take some of the, some of the workout for you so that you can focus on that creativity and things. But what we as marketers need to do on our teams with our execs is create systems that allow us to cut out some of that repetitive stuff without infringing on the creative process.

Speaker 2 (00:15:05) - Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think back to when I was doing s SEO initially and I was working on Ford, I literally spent 40 hours a week copy and pasting. Like I had what, 147 characters. I had each make and model of each car in each city. Mm-hmm.  that we had, you know, dealerships in. And I'd have to sit there and figure out how to copy and paste each. Like I would write my baseline of copy and then have to write out each ever. And I'm like, this is re ridiculous. Like, I'm gonna lose my ever-loving mind. I mean, I'm talking like thousands upon thousands of cells. And so I started talking to my husband, who's a programmer and understood Excel much better than me as well, and started to show me how we could basically write a little bit of code that would let me kind of take my base copy and then replace my, make my model my city with my list of those things.

Speaker 2 (00:15:52) - And all of a sudden I had all this free time, I was able to work on a TV spot that ended up airing on E S P N with Ken Block r i p Ken. But like, it was just one of those things I think, you know, like you're saying, there's systems in ways and opportunities in which we can take low lying, repetitive grunt type work out of the way mm-hmm.  and give people opportunity to do more creative, um, and experiential type things. Spend more time being human than being the machines ourselves. Um, yes. And then I would also say, I think you were smart and saying, you know, being cautious about prompting and and understanding and knowing how to prompt is, is very key. Mm-hmm. . Cause as we know, you know, junk in, junk out sort of mentality is that, you know, just because it's there doesn't mean you're gonna get good quality stuff out of it. You have to know how to tell it what you want, what you need. You have to think about outcome. So there's still strategy and creative even in leveraging the machine itself. Mm-hmm. .

Speaker 3 (00:16:47) - Um,

Speaker 2 (00:16:48) - And like I was saying before, you know, the event that we were at earlier this week, I was just really floored by how some folks were kind of embracing the technology and using it to sort of, like you said, truncate and kind of get rid of that repetitive work that was really slowing them down and then free them up for bigger, more kind of higher thinking, more creative type of work as well. Um, I was really quite floored in some of the ways they were using it. I was like, I never would've even thought. And I will say too, as a small business owner, I find this also hugely empowering because when you've got a team of three people running an entire organization and you don't have the means to hire more, if you have the ability and knowledge to leverage something light, check two p t for your business in a way that's effective and efficient, and you're fact checking all these things that we're talking about as well. Golly, how much power do you have? Like how much more democratized as content now and the ability to create it when you've got something like this, you know, under your belt. So there's two sides, obviously. So other than what of you mentioned, was there anything else kind of on the flip side that you felt that were valuable tools for content marketers? Um, in what specific areas that something like chat PT can help ex help them excel

Speaker 3 (00:17:59) - In terms of, of the ways that chat PT is being used? Yeah. Mm-hmm. , because, so it's being used in a lot of different ways. I mean, Salesforce is adding it as an assistant to, uh, slack. Yeah. I know. Um, I believe Duo Lingo is now bringing it in as a way to help people learn languages, which is really cool. Quizlet is using it to tutor people. And with every single one of these things, I think to myself, okay, that's great. What about the limits? Uh, is it gonna be accurate? How are these people folding in these pieces of technology? And, you know, are we changing how we look at, um, information and the backup of that information? Even Google, Google just announced at Google IO that they're going to have a, uh, AI generative response option that's coming out and that is gonna cite, it's gonna cite its sources, which is really great for all us SEOs who are worried about those zero clicks. Yes. Um, but, but it's still, it changes the game when you can have, you know, your, your smart devices, I won't say the name cuz mine will respond. Right. When, when you can have your smart devices just tell you an answer, how much further you gonna look into it. So, um, so there's a tons of ways that it's being used and I view every one of them with excitement and caution. .

Speaker 2 (00:19:10) - Right? Yes. I love the balance that you bring to it. Yeah. Could you provide some examples or use cases where Chat G P T is successfully integrated into some of the marketing campaigns that either you've seen or that you've worked on?

Speaker 3 (00:19:21) - Yeah. So in terms of what's actually going on in the marketplace, the thing that's interesting is that a lot of big name companies, they're using the tools and they're creating vaccine experiences. Right. We're seeing a lot of, uh, tech companies that are integrating it into their applications. In the content space, though, we're really still in that experimentation phase. So plenty of people are using it mm-hmm. , but you're not seeing, oh, we started using it for email marketing and we saw this percent, you know, uh, growth in in what we were doing. Right. You're not seeing that as much. And I think that's for two reasons. Number one, everyone's very excited about chat, C B T, but people don't really like admitting that they're using it on a large scale mm-hmm.  because there is a justifiable stigma against it. If I know that the companies that I enjoy Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:20:09) - Are sending me AI generated emails mm-hmm. , that makes me feel less special and less personal. Uh, like it's less so personal relationship, uh, which we already knew that those emails weren't really coming from, you know, poly at whatever. Right. But it, it, it downgrades that a little bit. Mm-hmm. , so companies that are in the B2C space, they're not really gonna be talking about it as much. I think where we're gonna see start to see those case studies is going to be the content marketing agencies, the SEO agencies. Yeah. They're gonna talk about, we've implemented this and by using it, we've helped our clients do X, Y, Z mm-hmm. . But even that, it hasn't come out yet. And I think it's just because we're still in that experimentation aspect. So we see people who are talking about how you could use it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:20:48) - There's tons of use case pieces. There are tons of consultants talking about what they're playing with and everything, but we haven't started to see the results just yet. Mm-hmm. , uh, one area I did see some information about was in product descriptions, you know, for Amazon, like you said. Yeah. If you have 10 different things and they're all very similar, but you need to write about them a little bit differently, I have heard that that's been really helpful in terms of time savings. Yeah. Um, so that's one, one area where I think we will start seeing some more tangible information mm-hmm. . Uh, but right now it's a lot of, a lot of trying, trying things and seeing how it goes.

Speaker 2 (00:21:20) - Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I hear a lot of people doing it for like subject line AB testing, things like that as well. You know, content, um, kind of like, uh, brainstorming, like almost using it like a virtual assistant, like it's an extra brain. It's an intern. Somebody actually said that too. I said that they were using the chat g p t as like an intern where it's like you, you, you definitely check the intern's work and you're, you're gonna be looking over their shoulder cuz you're like, you don't know everything yet, but you're gonna be a great help to me because you're basically getting that low like fruit. Um, some groundwork started so that then I can kind of come in and, and give it the gloss of the shine and the proof that it needs. Um, so I think those are some kind of interesting ways to sort of view it in particular.

Speaker 2 (00:22:02) - Are there, um, oh, we kind of talked about this a little bit at the beginning with your first question. The first question, and I think it's an important one because obviously like I said, we're kind of sitting in that interesting spot where as marketers we are learning and we are teaching at the same time. And it's kind of like, and we're looking over our shoulders cuz we're like, okay, well while I'm educating you executive leadership on this AI tool, I'm also worried about my job  mm-hmm. . So what are some ways that, um, we can talk to leaders and stakeholders? Um, what are some best practices and strategies to follow in those communications to make sure that we're really covering all of our bases and maybe in some cases our masks ?

Speaker 3 (00:22:45) - Um, absolutely ab it's really important when you go into those conversations and one of the things that, that you just said, people are treating it like an intern mm-hmm.  and keep reminding people that it's not a person, it's not a human, it doesn't have a mind, it doesn't think about things and come to conclusions and have ideas. And I hear people all the time say, right , no, no, interns are wonderful. Right? Um, but I hear people all the time say, I wanted to see what Chad Chick p t thought, I wanted to see what conclusion it would come to or, you know, how it would put that together. I'm like, it's not putting that together. That's not how large language models work. And, and I'm happy to go into, you know, how they actually work. I think that's really important for people to know.

Speaker 3 (00:23:25) - Um, but first off, eliminating that way of talking about it, talking about it, the more, the way that you talk about your text predictor on your phone and talking about it as a really, really great text thing, reminding people that it's about language, it's not about ideation. Um, and making sure that they understand that difference between it and you because you know that you are more valuable because you can do something that it cannot, you can innovate. It cannot innovate, it cannot come up with an idea that hasn't been in its data set. Right. It will not happen. So you bring something to the table that it never can make sure that your execs know that. Talk about that, talk about the ideas that you are having and then play this like you would play any other tool. Play it like you would play a HubSpot.

Speaker 3 (00:24:09) - Mm-hmm. , here's the idea that I've had and here's how we're gonna use that to get there. Mm-hmm. , um, do your due diligence. Be the person who brings the conversation to your team. Don't wait for an exec to come to you and say, oh, I need to know about this. Or we need to start using this. Cuz by that point they formulated a lot of their own opinions. Yeah. So be the person who brings the conversation to them. Be the person who provides guidance, gets everyone on the same page. Uh, know that you can't just ignore it. And if you do, you're gonna hear about random people in your company who are using it probably in ways that you don't want them to. So as content marketers, we are the owners of our brand, we're the owners of our messaging. We need to really feel confident in that consistency and, and not worry that people in other departments or in other customer facing roles are using this in a way that we wouldn't want them to.

Speaker 3 (00:24:56) - Um, I'm also a really big fan of guides. I love brand style guides. I love writing style guides. I think they're incredibly useful. Mm-hmm. . So thinking about track G V T that way is really great. There are tons of guides out there about how you can use it, but you wouldn't use another brand's brand style guide for yours. You wouldn't use their colors, you wouldn't use their logos, you wouldn't use their way of doing things. You might take inspiration from them mm-hmm. . But you're gonna have your own brand guidelines and you should have your own chat c p t guidelines about this is the scenario in which we feel comfortable using it in these ways. This is how we keep our ethics good. This is how we keep the system working and this is how we get more efficiency. So for example, if you are in, uh, in an area where email marketing's super huge for you and your brand is all about like super peppy unique emails, don't use trash p t for that because you're not gonna get weird ideas and interesting things.

Speaker 3 (00:25:49) - You know, someone like, uh, you know, I don't wanna name specific brands, but someone who's a little bit more very specific B2C startup might not be good for them to use it for that or for social or for things of those nature. Versus if you're more of a legacy brand and email marketing is not as much, or your brand voice is a little more standard, a little more traditional, then you might be able to use that for your bases, uh, your basis of your emails and build from there. And it'll be reasonable. It won't need as much editing and you can keep your voice, which is really good. So think about that the same way that you think about a brand's guideline and then train people. Do a lunch and learn. Do, you know, make tutorial videos. Talk about prompting. Prompting is a skill and it's something we have to develop saying, Hey, Chachi ki write me a blog on topic.

Speaker 3 (00:26:36) - Right. I'm not gonna give you the greatest results. No. But saying to it, here are the parameters that we need. Here's who we are, here's who the reader is, here's what I need, here's the link, et cetera. There's tons of stuff you can put in there that will help to have you do less editing on the backend, though, you should always edit on the backend. Yeah. But it will help you quite a lot. And if you can standardize that so that your writers have a framework they can go back to, it's gonna give you better consistency. So that training is super important.

Speaker 2 (00:27:04) - Yeah. I think those are, it's all great advice. I love that you're positioning yourself as a subject matter expert. You're positioning it as a tool, not a person, which I think is smart. Although I personify everything, um, . But I think it's a good distinction to make in the space of, of work and what we're talking about, I think. And by being the person who steps in and helps to educate, create those guidelines, you're setting yourself as in a position of authority on what it is, how it works, why it works, how it doesn't work mm-hmm. , um, and where not to use it to. Not only that, but you've got the opportunity to potentially save your company from some potential ethical ramifications, which we've already seen happen with some folks. Mm-hmm.  some messaging when they don't proof, for example. Um, are there any other ethical considerations that content marketers should keep in mind when using chat G P T and how can they ensure, um, that they're using it both responsibly and transparently?

Speaker 3 (00:28:01) - Absolutely. Um, chat, c p t, like everything else in marketing, you need to approach it, um, carefully. So I, I think first and foremost, you need to acknowledge the fact that as an AI and anything in machine learning, it's learning off of the base of human writers. Mm-hmm. . So if it's coming up with a cool turn of phrase or it's thinking about that it's been said before by someone like, you, like me, our writing was used to teach this thing and we're not getting any credit for it. We're not getting any royalties for what it's putting out there. So, you know, just, there's not really a good answer to that because it's not gonna be able to say, oh, I took inspiration from these five people. But being aware that it's not generating unique ideas, it's not generating completely unique texts. It may be unique in terms of those words having not been said in all of that order before, but it's not unique conceptually.

Speaker 3 (00:28:51) - Uh, so just being aware of that and knowing that you aren't gonna get something that is groundbreaking from it is really important. And knowing that it is, learning from everything that people are doing is also really important. We also, again, need to be really careful about misinformation. AI writers are. And do you mind if I go into a little bit of how they actually work? Yeah, please. Yes. So AI writers are built on something called a large language model. And what a large language model does is it takes in a massive amount of information on writing and patterns and patterns of writing. So it understands not only words and their meanings, but also their context, their relations to each other, how a sentence is built. And it takes all of that information and it's able to say, based on the input that you've given me, this is how I think the sentence should go.

Speaker 3 (00:29:38) - That will read well and will make you happy. Nowhere in there is validation. No, it's, they're not saying, I'm gonna go read a whole bunch of stuff and come to a conclusion and make sure that it's correct. It is thinking about, what is the next word? What is the next phrase that needs to continue to fill out this answer? So when you are getting information from it, it's not sourcing, there's no sourcing on chat. G P T three, I think they talked about it a bit with chat g PT four, which is in beta and paid. So there's your revenue starter for chat G P T, uh, just about now. It doesn't happen. Um, but you don't know where that data's coming from and it does have some accuracy issues, significant accuracy issues in fact. And it's been, it's been caught in that many, many times.

Speaker 3 (00:30:20) - Mm-hmm. . So this is important for any business, but I would say absolutely, especially if you work in what SEOs called the your money, your life space. If you're a business that impacts people's health, their financial decisions, um, mental health, wellbeing, anything of that nature, be extremely diligent about using this because healthcare decisions like these are not things that people should take lightly anyways. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so you have to assume that it may not be quoting the actual best practice. It may be quoting what it had on that topic mm-hmm.  when it actually learned about that topic and putting it into words, uh, in a new way. So seriously, seriously important. Um, especially depending on your industry. Um, and then the other thing is be aware of the bias. You know, we all carry biases, biases with us when we are talking about different topics, you know?

Speaker 3 (00:31:10) - Mm-hmm. , um, there are so many different, especially gender biases and uh, and prejudices that we carry around that we say like, well, this person must do this because they look like this or because they sound like this. Or, um, and we don't think about that in writing. We don't think about that in machines. But when we build the machines and when we teach them based on human inputs, they get those biases too. So for instance, if you had this trained on writing and every single piece of writing that it saw that talked about software developers refer to them as men, then the system is going to assume that all software developers are men, which is completely incorrect. But if they, all it sees is he him, every time the word software development comes up, it's going to make that assumption. And that's, that's, you know, just one example.

Speaker 3 (00:31:55) - There are plenty of other ways that bias can impact how it's writing. It's also programmed to be polite. It's not supposed to be rude. And sometimes as content writers we're writing about difficult topics, we're writing about frustrating things, we're writing about the negatives of something mm-hmm. . And it's getting really difficult to do that with a system that doesn't wanna make you upset. Yeah. So, and then the other thing is be really careful with your data mm-hmm. , um, understand that anything you put into it is added to that database. Yes. And while they, I believe they have said they're not showing your conversation to anyone, nothing's going verbatim. Mm-hmm. , your data's going into that learning system. So, you know, I saw a Forbes piece at one point that was saying, oh, doctors could use this to make it easier to put notes in for patients.

Speaker 3 (00:32:41) - I'm like, oh, that's a HIPAA violation. You definitely can't put patient information into this. No. So generally the rule I have with that is don't put it into chat G P T if you wouldn't put it on LinkedIn. Yeah. If you can put it on a LinkedIn post and have any customer and any competitor see it. Yeah. Don't put it in there. Don't put your first party data that accounting wants a summary of for an internal meeting. Don't do any of that and put it into chat V B T because you have no control over where it goes from there. And we're, as you said, with legal, we're already seeing there be some significant questions about that in terms of, especially in Europe with GDPR rules. There's some real questions about how this technology is gonna be used if you assume that it could be everything's getting taken in.

Speaker 2 (00:33:27) - Yeah. A lot more consumer protections on that end and that part of the c that part of the world I should say. Yeah. So, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that it's kind of coming up first and foremost there.

Speaker 3 (00:33:36) - Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:33:36) - Those are all great examples and great things to watch out for. In your current role as content marketer for ob, have you explored and started implementing any chat t v T in your content creation process? If so, what's been your experience so far? Because I know even as you were job hunting, you were very deliberate about looking for and making sure that obviously they weren't relying too much on this too soon.

Speaker 3 (00:33:59) - Yes. I personally found that really important. I didn't want to go and work at a place where I knew that my expectation was to be a robot editor. Uh, so I did cut out some, some potential opportunities that I thought maybe were leaning a little too hard. Uh, I actually just hit my 30 day market ob, which I'm very excited about. So most, mostly right now I'm really focused on content auditing, learning in business, and developing that go forward strategy. But mm-hmm.  O one is in the plans to create a chat G B T guide for my team. And I wanna do a training for anyone on the team who know, wants to know more about those AI writing tools. Um, in a previous, uh, role that I was in, I did use chat G p T for some translation. And the results were really great because chat, g p t unlike, um, unlike the sort of translators that we've seen before, like the Google Translate and whatnot mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (00:34:45) - , uh, you can tell it, Hey, this is conversational, here's who I am, what my status is, and here's who I'm talking to. So that's especially helpful. There are a lot of languages where your word choice actually changes based on your seniority, the seniority of the person you're talking to, the gender of the person that you're talking to, and yourself, um, and what their relationship is to you. So there's a lot of contextual word choice changes. And then also I found that some traditional translators tend to make things really formal and can end up sounding really stilted. Right. Whereas with chat C B T, you can say, Hey, this should sound conversational, use slang use, you know, it's a little more flexible mm-hmm. . So I really like it for that because translation is so hard and um, needs a really heavy hand and I don't speak all of the languages.

Speaker 3 (00:35:28) - So knowing that I can do a pretty darn good job and that I can just have someone on the other end who doesn't have to translate by hand, but rather can go through it and say, that shouldn't be that, or this should be over here, it, it really saves them a lot of time, which is a great thing. Um, I've also used it, you know, I'm not an email specialist, so sometimes for those cold emails and things and I'm seeing they're racking my brain, like, how do I not say, hi, my name is Lindsay McKee and I'm this person from this company and you should buy my stuff. Uhhuh . Um, it, it is very helpful in terms of saying, Hey, I wanna summarize this. Um, I wanna think about it this way. What are three things I could bullet point real quick. Yes. Um, and then for me, I also have used it for things like meta descriptions and ads.

Speaker 3 (00:36:09) - So meta descriptions, it's great for, um, Google has said it's okay to use it for meta descriptions specifically. Ok. Um, but it is sometimes it's really difficult to take this 1200 word piece that you just poured your heart and soul into. Right. And shrink it down into like 140 characters and know how it's gonna impact someone when they, when they look at that and whether or not they're gonna click. Yeah. Uh, so I found it really helpful for seeing how, seeing how a system that is designed to read and process that information, Uhhuh  would summarize it. Right. Kind of gives me a good idea of, well, do I like that summary or do I wanna tweak it? Or what is it getting from this and, and returning back to me? Um, so yeah, that's, those the ways that I've seen it. I, I think there's some really cool ways that you can do add to your prompts to, to make it say what you want it to say.

Speaker 3 (00:36:55) - Uh, but I, again, it's really also about experimentation. Think about the areas of your business where you can handle having a draft that's not as perfect or where you run into a lot of blockages mm-hmm. , um, or where you don't have specialists and you need something to kind of jumpstart a little bit. Uh, not, don't use it for the place where you already kicked behind. You know, when, when you are really awesome at something, let that be yours. Mm-hmm. , hold on to that. Have that be your space where you don't have to rely on AI and you can just be in your zone.

Speaker 2 (00:37:29) - Yeah. That's great advice. And I think it's interesting, your, your use case is kind of taking that longer form kind of piece and finding a way to condense it. Because I started an SEO and because I was very much an advertising writer doing digital for me and not so much like the content writing for like, I mean I did websites and stuff, but it was mostly like banner ads and social media short form was my favorite challenge. Like, I like writing short form copy and being as impactful as I can. For me, the struggle was long form. So in my case, a lot of times I like to use it as an outline because I'll have an idea in my head for something that I know really needs to be thought out in more than just 200 words. Right. And I'll just kinda stuck after a certain point.

Speaker 2 (00:38:09) - So I use it often to outline, um, certain things like emails. And then what I find is like, oh, I wouldn't have thought to make this point. Mm-hmm.  or bring up this instance. Um, and I also find that like when I'm using it sometimes, you know, we have like, we have a particular brand voice that we're going for, but when you write about the same things over and over and over again, sometimes actually prompting it for different metaphors or analogies or ways to say the same thing that you say over and over again in a new way has also been kind of interesting for me to see. Because again, I'm putting in facts and things that I already know are to be true. I'm just asking you to kind of rephrase them or reframe them in a new way. So those are like, it's really interesting how you're taking that long form and making it to short form.

Speaker 3 (00:38:56) - Absolutely. And I see there are comments about blogs. So I, I do wanna say one thing about blogging cause I think it's really important and you know, there are a lot of risks. We talked about them with the data, things we talked about. You know, don't treat AI like a, you know, iRobot. It's not that, don't treat it like that. Um, and those biases are really important. But also when it comes to that SEO piece, it is so important to be aware because I see so many people talking about use it for your blog, use it for your blog, use it to optimize for seo. And there are also people who say, well, Google says it's okay cuz Google says that AI generated content is fine. And that's where again, you need to make sure you read what Google is saying. You need to make sure you read what the, the real, real source is saying.

Speaker 3 (00:39:39) - Cuz Google says very specifically AI generated content, great for uses in a lot of different ways. Use it. It's been used for years for things like sports, you know, casting and things like that to have the scores and the weather up. There's all kinds of ways that you're using it. Um, having it for something like your meta description, that's okay. However, there is a line in their actual guidance about AI generated content that says using AI generated content for the purpose of manipulating the search results is considered spam. It is a violation of the spam guidelines. So using it for blogs that are for some outlining totally get that. That's very helpful for people who need to have a structure. Mm-hmm.  using it for, you know, your paid side, not a problem at all. Mm-hmm. . But using it for webpages that you are designing and writing that content specifically to rank, you can get in trouble down the line. And people, there's a lot of people who think, well how are they gonna be able to tell? But there are already systems being built that are going to detect it. Google's working on those systems. Even the people who made open ai, a lot of them are working on that because of issues in academia and places. Yes. Academics

Speaker 2 (00:40:45) - Right, for sure is a struggle.

Speaker 3 (00:40:48) - , they're facing a lot of issues with this that we as marketers don't have to worry about as much mm-hmm. . Um, but they will be able to tell, there will be ways for them to tell. And also quite frankly, when we think about SEO and we think about that helpful content mm-hmm.  writing something that's been written 10 times before mm-hmm. , that's not the best way to make your yourself rank. Think about the patterns, think about the keywords, all of that's great. Come up with your outline, think about what's worked for other people mm-hmm.  and then you have to infuse it with that unique point of view, with that innovation, with the real thought leadership that you have and your understanding of it and your brand and your voice. And Chad PT is not gonna be able to do that. So even if it could make a great SEO optimized piece, it's not gonna last forever in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (00:41:34) - Yeah. Someone can go right ahead and prove me wrong, but in my opinion, that's not gonna last forever cuz it's not gonna be as intentional. Yeah. And Google has said that that's not Yep. How they want people to be using this technology. And so that's why I always say take it with a grain of salt because I've seen really reputable sources be talking about it for that. And, and it's, it's really difficult when you haven't read the fine print. So I would be very careful with that. And, and with any use case that you have it, we don't know is is meta or is Instagram in six months gonna say, Hey advertisers, no AI generated content or we only want use in this way. Yeah. Right. So think about the publishers, the distribution channels that you're on and how they are treating AI and read the guidelines that they are putting out because that's gonna give you the best information and to protect yourself and your business.

Speaker 2 (00:42:24) - Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't want that content getting flagged. No. It's kind of like the black hat issues in SEO and people were like over like indexing on their keywords and things like that. You know, you try to beat the system and at some point the system catches up . So you always have to  of that. Um, but yeah, those are all very fair and, and great points. Lindsay, there was something else I was gonna say and then I forgot what it was, so I'll just ask you the next question. Yeah, sounds good. Actually it's my last question, so I do wanna open it up to, to our live listeners as well because I'm sure that you all have some questions. Don't be shy about dropping them into the chat.

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Speaker 2 (00:43:40) - Um, the last question I have for you today, Lindsay, uh, is can you offer any tips or advice to content marketers who are hesitant or unsure about embracing it or even trying it? Because there's folks out there who haven't, obviously we had a room of like 50 or 60 people yesterday and maybe half raised their hand when they asked if people were using it yet. Uh, how can they approach it with confidence and overcome any fears that they might have?

Speaker 3 (00:44:00) - Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I also had that fear at the beginning. I was like, maybe if I just don't use it right, no one can like catch me using it and say, oh you should use it more. Um, that again, that's not gonna work. You can't ignore it away. Um, and I think that's become really clear to most of us. I know I agree some days I agree. But, um, number one, learn about large language models. Don't get pulled into the shininess. Don't get pulled into the brand names cuz there's not just chat d b T, there's chat b t, there's Whisper, there's Japer thinks another one. There's um, there's the things that Google's gonna be doing, um, the Google bar, things of that nature. Like there are so many different ones. They're all built on this system of large language models. And if there isn't one, if there's a brand name that you're unaware of, learn what the programming model is that it's actually built on.

Speaker 3 (00:44:47) - Use what kind, learn what kind of machine learning it's using and then learn about that system and learn about what the limitations are and how it works. So then when someone comes at you and says, well I think that it thinks about this and it considers this and you can say that as not how that works, here is how that works. Um, and that's really gonna help you understand what you're working with. It'll help you understand the opportunities of, this is an amazing natural language processing system. If I give it text, it is going to understand the context of that text, it's going to understand the statistical way that that writing happens and therefore as a writing tool incredible. So you can look at it and see this amazing thing. Like I said with translation, it makes total sense why something built on this model would be so good at translation versus why it would be so bad at accuracy .

Speaker 3 (00:45:35) - So, uh, learning about the actual models themselves is super important and being aware of when changes to those models happen. Um, so if you are reading about chat, g b t subscribe to you know, open ai, if they have a, if they have a a newsletter, um, get the information directly from the people who are building these things. Mm-hmm.  cuz that is really important. Yeah. Write a guide. I personally, the best way I learn is by teaching others. Yeah. Write a guide, create, look at every one of those use cases that you see online and think about what does this use case mean for me, for my company? Is it good, is it bad? How should we be using it? Is it a way that anyone should be using it? Mm-hmm. . Um, and then when we are doing it, how, what are the best practices that we wanna put in there?

Speaker 3 (00:46:16) - Um, be transparent with your execs. If they're asking for something outside of that scope, tell them this is what I researched and based on that I chose not to include this in our scope because of X, Y, Z. Mm-hmm. . Um, don't, don't let people bully you into using it in a way that you're not comfortable with or ready with, or that you're not confident about. And if they really need you to then say, I need time to research if this is the right thing for us mm-hmm.  before we just dive in and then, and I've said this before and I'm gonna say it every single day, you have more to offer than an AI ever will. Mm-hmm.  there you can be scared of it because some companies are going to mismanage it. Some companies Yes. And some industries are going to make the mistake of thinking that an AI can replace a human.

Speaker 3 (00:46:57) - And that is not true. And we as content marketers need to say that to ourselves every single day. You and your team have this infinite value of unique points of views. Mm-hmm.  ideas, innovation, the context of the conversations that you have, whether they're at work or over Slack or Zoom or whatever. Mm-hmm. , you have to be confident that you know your audience and your people and your business better than any i AI ever will you have data, it never will. Mm-hmm. . So hopefully don't give it your data. Um, you have data, it never will . And, and that's really important and has a really concrete value. Mm-hmm. . And like I said, make sure that some of your work in some of your writing stays a hundred percent human. Mm-hmm. , pick something, something that you really excel at that you absolutely love. Like for me, I love blogging. I love writing these really long pieces. So I'm not gonna use it for that because I have those skills inherently, and I can build it and I can be really proud of it. And then I can say, this is a hundred percent me. And I think having that little piece is really gonna help all of us writers maintain that confidence in what we bring to the table.

Speaker 2 (00:48:01) - Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there's just new, so much nuance to the art of writing and understanding a brand tone and voice. Mm-hmm.  and human nature. I mean, that's a lot to try for any machine, much less a person. There's a reason why not everyone, everyone can write, right? But not everyone's a writer. Not everyone can take a brand voice and a concept and a client goals and mm-hmm.  people, consumers at the end, you know, all into consideration and kind of mash it together for that bigger conceptual takeaway. And so I think that's where it's like, I'm not, I've never having been in digital, because I kind of came into advertising, I, I started in direct mail, which was great because I got to see like my open rates or my coupon redemption rates through, I was on Sprint, which was funny. But, um, just being able to get feedback on my creative, my ideas was one thing that I kind of fell in love with, you know, in the industry and doing digital marketing and advertising specifically versus traditional, was because I got to kind of see how my work performed.

Speaker 2 (00:49:00) - I got to partner with strategy and sort of taking not just my content and my ideas, but finding the right places people mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.  with that is like, it's always so brilliant. So, you know, in my opinion, I think it's just another tool in, in my opinion, it's a tool, another tool in the toolbox. It doesn't replace one per se. It just really gives us more opportunity to actually take our ideas a little bit farther, maybe a little bit faster. Mm-hmm. , because we're doing less of that longer, like grunt work or more repetitive work. Like, I just think back to me in those GD bulk sheets. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It was so freeing. And to get beyond that, so kind of knowing how, when and where to leverage it, where to play with it, where to stay away from it. I think all of these, um, pieces of advice and guidelines that you've given have been tremendous.

Speaker 2 (00:49:45) - I remember the other thing I was gonna say earlier was that I spent, the week before last, um, I volunteered to review some essays on ethics from some high school students through the Better Business Bureau for a scholarship. And I will tell you that, you know, there were none that were chat, you know, G P T or AI generated. And I'll tell you, I can still read things and tell you who wrote them. Like as a person who was in writing for almost her entire life, I'm reading and I'm like, this is clearly a high school student's writing, like the, the chat GBT doesn't know how to write like a high school student. There's still gonna be problems and issues. Um, and even when other people write to me, like I just, I'm mm-hmm. , I'm pick up on tone of voice so quickly. Yeah. And so easily, if it's more than a couple sentences, I can tell you, I feel like I can tell you, maybe we should test this sometime. I'll have somebody send me some emails. But no, I, which one's AI generated and which one was me? ,

Speaker 3 (00:50:40) - I agree with you. My favorite was, I asked it to create a voicemail for cold calling and it was like a full elevator pitch. And I just sat there. I was like, obviously this robot has never received a very annoying voicemail elevator pitch Bec Right. Because a voicemail elevator pitch, they're just gonna hang up and never talk to you again. And a voicemail should be very simple. Hey, this is me. I called you, here's how you can get back to me. I really think we could do something great here. Move on. Mm-hmm. . Uh, and I just wanted to see what it would create. And it was so funny because I realized it doesn't have the context to understand. So it just knows, you know, a voicemail could sound like this and this is what you're promoting and that's all that's going off of because it doesn't have that human understanding of people's reaction to realizing you have a voicemail. They're

Speaker 2 (00:51:27) - Like, oh my God, what is happening? That's so true. Right. You did remind me too, for whatever reason, something you said there, um, just I think talking about emails, I, this, this was actually around, gosh, I wanna say 10 years ago, there was a plugin for Google, um, that was developed and created by women to help them remove modifiers. Mm-hmm.  from their email. So I will tell you, I have taken something that I've written from an email standpoint to somebody that's a perspective, you know, from a sales perspective. And I plop it in there and I say, make this sound more confident. You know, and that way it kind of removes that more, although I feel like it's just still overly like all the exclamation points, I'm like, please stop. I'm not like a huge exclamation point fan and I know I can just delete them, but I'm like, don't, don't write like a cheerleader.

Speaker 2 (00:52:08) - Yeah. Like, tell me, make this sound confident. Like how would a confident, you know, sales dude write this? And it helps remove those modifiers and kind of reposition the order of some things. And it's not always perfect, but I can always take away at least one new learning from it. So I might not take that email and use that whole thing. I might just take one line, or I might just take something that it did a little different that I didn't think to do and be like, oh, that's cool. Um, so that's another use case I have found in the sense of emails too, is, you know, just kind of helping my tone of voice to make it be more persuasive or be more confident just in case we happen to use as modifiers in our language. Oh, yes. Which we, we tend to do as women, unfortunately. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:52:50) - Women statistically use the word just more often. I just need a moment of your time. Could you just get this to me? And it, I feel, makes us sound intrusive. Uhhuh, , it kinda leans into that, uh, that very biased, old-fashioned sense of nagging. Yes. Could you just get this done? And so it doesn't work very well. And, and also your language, there's always a better adjective than there is an arb Cut out the word very from all of your communications. Barry does nothing for anyone. .

Speaker 2 (00:53:18) - Alright.

Speaker 3 (00:53:19) - Very are not, they're not that, uh, that useful. So yes, there's a lot that you can do to make yourself, I've never heard a thought of that as a use case, but that makes a lot of sense. You know, how can I make this sound a little more, a little more assertive or a little more, um, you know, robust or whatnot. Adjectives uhhuh. So, yep. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:53:38) - It's like a, it's like a whole new thesaurus, which, you know, I love Method Thesaurus still too. I wanted to mention too, Andy had dropped into the chat. Thank you Andy. And I agree this, this is another great resource on the topic. Mm-hmm.  is the, um, AI Marketing Institute. They were actually president at the event that we went to, um, earlier this week as a group. Um, so it's a great site, great resource. They're actually hosting in Cleveland. I'm gonna give 'em a plug. Um, a myON. It's M A I C O n. Um, so it's marketing AI institute conference in Cleveland. So. Nice. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:54:11) - That's awesome to check

Speaker 2 (00:54:12) - It out. I'm curious to kind of hear and see where things go here. We were last year, you know, not talking about any of this and now there's entire conferences around it. So unfortunately friends, there's no avoiding it. But I do feel like, you know, hopefully you've all felt more informed and equipped and inspired in some ways that you can start to kind of lean into it, um, to learn while also educating, et cetera, et cetera. Lindsay, thank you so much for your perspective. It's super valuable and I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (00:54:41) - I love being here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:54:44) - Of course. Well, we are right at time. If you want to reach out to Lindsay, you can follow her on LinkedIn. Let her know that you tuned into the podcast today. Um, if you have any other questions. Otherwise, that's all for today. Thank you all so much. The hour went so fast. , as always. Thank

Speaker 3 (00:55:00) - You.

Speaker 2 (00:55:01) - Bye-bye.