Becoming the ME-EO of Your Career | Lori Sullivan | Power Lounge S3 E13

Join us for a live podcast event with guest Lori Sullivan, a trailblazer in career diversity and personal brand empowerment. Lori's journey, spanning 25 years, defies the traditional career trajectory, showcasing the power of embracing multiple passions and skills. In an era where the old model of lifelong allegiance to a single career path is fading, Lori advocates for the ME-EO mindset – a paradigm shift where individuals craft a portfolio of skills and income streams. Through her experience in marketing leadership at esteemed companies like General Motors and MRM//McCann, Lori illustrates the value of traversing the career jungle gym and discovering one's unique talents beyond job titles. As a business strategist, Gallup Certified career coach, and published photographer focused on sustainability, Lori embodies the essence of a successful modern career – one that's multifaceted, fulfilling, and continuously evolving. Don't miss this opportunity to learn how you too, can redefine success on your terms.

ABOUT LORI:
Lori Sullivan is a multi-passionate who has spent the last 25 years climbing up, down, and around the career jungle gym. She worked most of those years in marketing leadership positions at General Motors and MRM//McCann before venturing out on her own. Today, she is a business strategist and Gallup Certified career coach. On the side, she is a photographer with a passion for sustainability having published her first book - One Shade Greener at Home - in 2023.

Featured in the Episode

Lori Sullivan

Business Leader, Strategist & Author

Make An Appointment with Lori

Amy Vaughan,

Owner & Chief Empowerment Officer

LINKS

Stratify Collective
One Shade Greener
What is Gallop Certified?
The Jungle Gym Analogy
More Than My Title
Business Model YOU
The Search

Takeaways:

• Organizational Support for Employee Growth
• The Role of Mentoring and Coaching
• Acknowledging Personal Strengths
• Balance in Passion and Profession
• Career Development Resources
• Embracing the MEO Mindset
• Managing Career Gaps and Experience

Quotes

"The efforts we put into our work are just as vital in crafting the life we desire."- Lori Sullivan

"Be a curious storyteller who crafts words to inspire and connect, delving into diverse perspectives to spark meaningful conversations."-- Lori Sullivan

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction

04:17 - Women in Workforce: Navigating Life Stages

07:22 - Business Strategy in Personal Life

11:12 - Personal Background: Assessment Introduction

14:26 - Self-Awareness and Strengths Acknowledgment

19:22 - Exploring Careers through Job Shadowing

24:29 - Unveiling Career Themes from Past

25:31 - Creative to Business Management T

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

All right, hello everyone, welcome to our weekly power lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who have power to share and choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can learn more about us and join the movement at togetherindigitalcom. All right, friends, get ready for today's episode, which is going to be packed with insights and strategies to help you shape a successful and fulfilling career on your own terms. Why am I emphasizing this? Because I think this is a concept that's hard for some of us to even fathom, but to help you get on your way.

Speaker 1: 0:57

Our guest today Lori Sullivan. She is a pioneer in career diversity and personal brand empowerment. With over 25 years of experience, lori breaks away from traditional career paths, advocating for the MEO mindset. Throughout her journey, lori Hasla held leadership roles in marketing at General Motors, mrm McCann before becoming a business strategist and Gallup certified career coach. Additionally, lori is a passionate photographer, writer and sustainability advocate, having published her first book, one Shade Greener at Home in 2023. And those of you who are viewing with us live right now can see her lovely book back there in the corner behind her. I love it when we get to interview some book authors and you've got the book proudly there displayed there behind you. Lori, thank you so much for being with us today. We're excited to chat with you.

Speaker 2: 1:52

And thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:53

Absolutely. And before we get into kind of helping others and how they're going to shape their career journeys, I would love for you to share a little bit more about your journey from marketing leadership at General Motors and MRM McCann, as I mentioned in your bio, to becoming a business strategist and Gallup certified career coach. How did you get from here to there?

Speaker 2: 2:17

I would say the high level thing is it wasn't going from A to B and I think all of us in our journeys take a lot of twists and turns and I have throughout my career and what I've done is a lot of following my passion. So I definitely have crossed disciplines with engineering, market research, marketing, spent time on agency and client side and, as you know, as you go across those years you're moving up a career ladder. You might be moving across. I got married, I had two children who are grown now, so I know those challenges when you're going through the phases of life of having a family and everything that that brings. And during that time I worked full time, I worked part time, I worked freelance.

Speaker 2: 3:08

I feel like I tried all the different models and then, on the side of my mainstream career, I kept side businesses going. I feel like I have so many hobbies and passions and I've always loved my job and loved what I did in my mainstream career. But I also enjoyed following those passions from photography to, you know, writing a book and I even spent a year and a half focused on some jewelry making. So trying out different things and then just furthering my education. So I got a certificate of photography. I did, as you mentioned, go in 2019 to get my Gallup certification and right now I am almost at the end of getting my now see, I can't say the Sustainability certificate from MIT. So it's been interesting because I didn't kind of jump from one thing to another, but just kept a lot of things going throughout and you start to see red threads. I think everyone, as you start to look back at the history of your career, you'll see those interesting threads and paths.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Yeah, I think it's more fluid, right, and I think what's interesting that I'm seeing, you know, women in the workforce starting to model, that that even men can start to model is this ability to kind of flex throughout your life and your life stages, because women coming into the workforce and becoming, you know, there's this whole kind of crazy clashing rate of, like motherhood and ambition right between us entering the workforce in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, but then also that contending with, maybe our desire or ambition to raise a family and things like that or even just kind of have a life outside of work if you don't choose a family, like there's still so many things about our life and our life stages that you know kind of might change the way that we look at work and the way we approach work.

Speaker 1: 5:11

And I think that that is too evolving. And I say I think attitudes towards career and career path are evolving and so I think a lot of what you spoke to there we'll speak to a lot of our listeners in that sense of maybe starting to find some ease in the sense that, yeah, my career path doesn't have to be linear, that I can kind of ebb and flow with the stages and phases of my life. But then another thing you mentioned is you know this sense of a multi-potentialite or multi-passionate, I think is the way that you phrased it in some of your write-ups and things that I've read. You know the sense of you're good at more than one thing, so how can you make a career or a living or money out of more than one of those things? Right, Instead of just thinking I have to show up to work and be this thing and do this thing for the next 45 years or however long until I die?

Speaker 2: 6:02

Exactly, although I also don't want to discount that, because there are a lot of people out there that just they have a thing they found it expert, they love it, they're passionate and can go the 20, 30 years, the long haul doing that thing and and I admire that. But I think it's good for people to realize not everyone, yeah, is that, and if it's not, you kind of accept yeah, no, I definitely agree.

Speaker 1: 6:30

I wouldn't discount those folks either. Um, there's a gentleman my husband's been talking to. He's a professor at a university and this gentleman's retired and he's been like just uh, what is the term I'm thinking of? Like okay, it's, I'm blanking on it, but he's just, um, it's like when you kind of just come in that's not moderating the class, but he's not like officially taking the class, he's just kind of there observing and he's like donating to the school and he just wants to continue learning. But he's like a retired engineer and he's just like I just want to keep learning. I love that. I love that Like he just he's not in the field but wants to keep taking classes and that was so great. So for you, I'm kind of curious in particular, what is it about like traditional corporate roles that sort of influenced the set, your kind of positioning and this kind of thing that you're trying out? You said right before we got on the call, this advocacy for the MEO mindset, and what does this MEO mindset, as you're calling it, mean to you?

Speaker 2: 7:30

I think for me it's probably stemmed out of a lot of my background is in strategy and planning. So creating a business plan, setting a mission, vision and values, and I started to realize that a lot of those things that we do for our companies and at work are equally important when it comes to our life and kind of creating the life that we're looking to have. So the idea of CEO to MEO is the same way a CEO looks at their business. We've got that opportunity to look at our life through that lens. And you said a minute ago something triggered for me. You mentioned how what we need at different moments it changes and if you think about a company's business plan, they'll have a one, five, 10 year plan, but you're adjusting it every year. So the business plan this year isn't the same one next year and it's the same when it comes to our own lives and our careers. Things are going to be different each year and we should be planning for that intentionally and creating that map. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:43

I think it's just a. It's just a smart correlation and they I like it. In particular, it's it's catching the sense that it gives me the sense of like ownership, right. Like a lot of people want to kind of put their career pathing in the hands of fate or, you know, maybe the, the company that they currently work at, instead of looking at the bigger picture as well. It's more like the immediate future and we'll kind of get to more of that soon, but I really do. I love this whole MEO mindset. I think it's something that's gonna. I think it's gonna take off.

Speaker 2: 9:09

I feel like it's got some good legs too, and I love it and especially, you know our, our corporate careers really promote that like singularity, moving up the I mean you hear it everywhere you move up the corporate ladder but then what? So you retire and you, what like, fall off the ladder or you, you know you might have a period in your life where you either start a family or maybe you're caregiving for older parents or another life situation, and that that's why in my intro I use the jungle gym analogy. I heard that somewhere and it's so true. We should have moments where we can climb down a little bit, maybe climb down a lot, but have the chance to climb back up and remove the cliffs. So I think there's a lot of opportunity there to get corporate mindset, to move away from careers having to be these linear things and having more options for the employees.

Speaker 1: 10:17

Yeah, I think that's fascinating too right, because a lot of times I don't think we look at like diversifying skills and more lateral moves and how that could actually serve people best, because we don't always need to be stepping on the gas right, sometimes we need to let go of it a little bit and give people time and space for those life kind of phases. And and honestly I think that's you know, maybe you'll I don't want to jump ahead too far, but we're going to talk a little bit about, like you know, corporations and companies and how this mindset can serve them. But I could see how that would work well for retention, right?

Speaker 2: 10:46

You know, you don't want to burn people out, so maybe it's a matter of looking for growth in a different direction.

Speaker 1: 10:51

that doesn't mean up with more responsibilities and more pressure and more hours. Maybe it just means a different role and opportunity and a chance to learn and grow differently. Yeah, absolutely Awesome. Well, let's talk about your Gallup certification, because I think that's an interesting, that's a big achievement. That's awesome. How has that experience, and now coaching, shaped your approach to helping others navigate their careers?

Speaker 2: 11:20

This has been a fun one. So just my personal background. I was first introduced to the assessment probably somewhere around 2014 or 2015. And I think what hooked me was my own report. I read it and it was like a mirror articulating about myself and where I felt I brought strength to the table. It was all right there and I knew that my combination was very different than anyone else's. So you find almost your unique fingerprint and so I started using it at work with my direct reports or other people that I worked with. We would talk about it in team meetings and how our strengths kind of went in overdrive.

Speaker 2: 12:09

It's interesting your strength can show up as a weakness. So initially I was just using it as a team development and I love helping people discover their own journey when they're looking at their strengths, kind of having that feeling that I had at the beginning. And then what I've discovered over time is it's really important that it's not just something on the shelf, like I pull mine out once a year, I read them, I remind myself and then, when I'm using them with clients that I coach, we use them for all different kinds of things. So sometimes we're updating a LinkedIn profile or a resume and really trying to get those strengths to shine. There it could be something at work.

Speaker 2: 12:57

Maybe there is a work relationship where there's a little bit of rub, and use strengths to have an understanding of why that rub might be there. So you know, some of the themes are more executing, others are more strategic. Sometimes someone who's strong executing and someone who's very strategic you can get an unintentional rub and we work through those. So tons of uses. I love the tool and, outside of that, just the research that Gallup provides on employee engagement, the future of work. So much I've learned from being part of the Gallup community.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Yeah, let's back up for a second.

Speaker 2: 13:41

I probably should have asked for like a little bit more of like for those who aren't familiar with like what is Gallup strengths, like assessment and kind of their philosophy, just for those who maybe aren't familiar mostly word or phrase pairings that at the end they have 34 strengths grouped into four categories executing, influencing, relationship building and strategic thinking and you see your top five and you have a one in 33 million chance of having the same top five strengths in the same combination as someone else. So they truly are unique and personalized.

Speaker 1: 14:33

And yeah, that's, yeah, I think it's really helpful and insightful for the sake of you know, I'm constantly like harping on about the personal development and self awareness and what a great career growth tool it is. I think it's because once you sort of have that sense of awareness and understanding of yourself, you understand more about how you show up, how you work with others, like you said, where those rubs are when it comes to working with others. And then, what I love about Gallup, it is it's about instead of I think sometimes, when it comes to, like, review time or when we're, you know, looking at what we do, we tend to focus on our weaknesses. It's always like oh.

Speaker 1: 15:09

I need to get better at this and that I love that Gallup's all about the strengths and really kind of leaning in on those strengths and learning what those are as well and sort of learning how to develop yourself and acknowledge your strengths.

Speaker 2: 15:24

But, as you said, like you can kind of almost lean too hard sometimes on those strengths, yeah, and I always like to give a personal example on that one because I think it reinforces one of my top five is something called maximizer, and so a maximizer wants to take something good and make it great, no matter how good it is like what else could we do? What else could we do? And so very early in my career, when I was first a manager, I got feedback on my first performance review. That said work my team did was never good enough for me.

Speaker 2: 16:03

And that just well, it just took me aback. It was never my intent and what I've realized, reflecting back on that, is it was my maximizer in overdrive.

Speaker 1: 16:15

that their work was great.

Speaker 2: 16:17

And all I needed to do was acknowledge that before providing suggestions. It's a simple statement, right? This is awesome. Here's a couple ideas that could make it better. So often, when we do have those weaknesses, it can be a really small change.

Speaker 1: 16:33

That kind of right puts it all yeah you being aware of that and then kind of prefacing your feedback with that positive feedback first, but then even them being aware of you being a maximizer, you know, allows them to be like, oh, we know, lori, she's going to see this and she's going to be like, okay, this is great. Now how do we make the best of it? So, yeah, I definitely see it, too, as like an excellent team building tool. Yeah, such a I'm such a nerd for all this stuff, lori. So I'm right there with you when it comes to these things. I think they are great, right there with me when it comes to these things. I think they are great, great coaching and mentoring tools for us to just dig deeper, to better understand ourselves and each other, and let's give the direction, find the direction that we need to sort of move forward, because otherwise it can kind of just feel like a constant swirl of all the options that we've got in the world.

Speaker 1: 17:20

What are some common misconceptions when it comes to? I put it as career diversity, but what I mean by that is sort of moving right from one industry to the next, or different roles and responsibilities throughout our careers or career cycles, you know where we might have what a lot of us women deal with, which are called career gaps within our resumes. These are sort of contentious spaces for women in particular. I think when we're looking at our resumes, we want to see this kind of we were talking earlier this nice kind of linear, neat, bulleted resume. What are some misconceptions there when it comes to career diversity and cycles?

Speaker 2: 18:02

I, you know, cycles are going to happen and we've got to get comfortable with just. It's not going to be linear and it's not going to be perfect and sometimes, when you're in the middle of it, it's going to feel messy, but that shouldn't be a reason not to pursue it. So if you have a different area that you're looking to move into, but you're scared or you worry about what other people will think, like, find some ways to just test it, Try small little things, and it doesn't change doesn't have to happen overnight. You know, sometimes it can if the right opportunity is in front of you. It can if the right opportunity is in front of you. But you can also start taking small steps explore, test, learn and try different things.

Speaker 1: 18:51

Yeah, I think that's the kind of beautiful thing at least about our industry. Digital specifically is there's a lot of opportunity to, you know, do self-learning. You know you can get Google certified, you can get online and learn a lot of different things. Um, you can take it upon yourself to start to learn the code. There's, you know, a lot of options out there. A lot of people that I know that are in the space didn't even get a degree in the industry. They're self-taught. Um, there's a lot of opportunity to kind of just pick somebody's brain. I mean, I had somebody say recently to me that, like, job shadowing should not be just for the kids that are coming right out of college.

Speaker 1: 19:30

Like a grown adult who's interested in making a pivot in a career should be willing and open to considering a job shadow Like why not?

Speaker 1: 19:36

Like if you're interested in the role and the opportunity and an area of growth like last week we had a guest on talking about demystifying product management.

Speaker 1: 19:45

It's a huge growing space but it's a really convoluted role because not everybody quite knows and understands exactly what it's meant to be and do, because it sits somewhere between, like, product project management and other roles which where it doesn't really belong, and then IT and tech. And so really kind of helping people start to kind of understand and know how and where this position might exist, and B helps them one come better prepared to potential interviews, but to help some go in out into the world to start making that exploration happen in a way that doesn't feel discouraging, because I think that is the hard thing to about. You know an industry like digital, you know you've got all these roles and titles and responsibilities and you're like what does it all mean? You know, and you could be called a marketing manager in one company and it means one thing and it means this number of responsibilities, and then you go to a different company and it means something completely different, at least in the sense of responsibilities.

Speaker 2: 20:45

So yeah, and I've been reading a lot on the topic of like moving from titles to tasks, which I think is a really interesting concept, sort of what you were saying because the titles are so convoluted and a project manager at one company doesn't do the same thing a project manager does at another. So, rather than kind of focusing on that title you hold, what are the tasks you do and the strengths that you bring to the table encourage people to start shifting when they're communicating. Try to introduce yourself without using the company you work for and not the title that you hold. It's an interesting exercise because it forces you to think about who you really are, what are the talents that you bring to the table and what sets you apart. So I would encourage everyone to try to do that. That's great advice.

Speaker 1: 21:49

I mean, I can only imagine because, like that example I just gave of the marketing manager, you could be managing a team of so many people that include a project manager and a social media manager and a designer, or, as a marketing manager at a smaller company, you could be doing all of those things, that those are your tasks, whereas, like, you're managing those roles versus actually doing those tasks. So, yeah, that's really interesting and again too, I think it's. It's just, it is it's where it gets difficult and it gets convoluted. I guess I want to, I want to dig a little bit deeper to here and see if you have any kind of like thoughts or ideas on um to help some of our listeners who are currently job seeking, who do feel like they maybe have, you know, some career cycle gaps. How, how do you kind of coach folks to begin to address those when they're in the interview process?

Speaker 2: 22:42

Well, first of all, if you're a-eo, you don't have a gap. You you always work for yourself. So this, this is where I think, when we have our identity too tightly connected to a company or a title, when that goes away, we feel like we've lost who we are, what we bring to the table. So I would encourage anyone in that situation to remember that today you're the same person that you were on the last day. You were, you know, working at that company. You still have the same talent. You still bring a lot of worth to the table and focus on those strengths. You're probably doing things during the gap. It may be volunteering, it may be other, it could be anything. But highlight the things that you're doing. It's likely you're not doing nothing, and so highlight those skills, lean into them, find places where you can keep using your talent while you make your way through. That's fantastic advice.

Speaker 1: 23:52

I love that and, again, that me-you mindset, I love how it's coming into play. That's great. Yeah, so you've often. I've often spoke about how women have seen their diverse experience as a negative. You know, I'll get somebody that comes in as a member and they'll say, oh, I'm trying to get into X, y and Z, yet I don't have any experience. And then I'll look at their resume and I'll be like wait, there's like there's like inklings, like there's like little bits and pieces here and there. What advice would you give to professionals who are looking to embrace this career diversity and create their own unique path? If they don't feel like there's like good sense of salinity, I would say they don't feel great about the diverse experience.

Speaker 1: 24:33

I guess They've bounced around too much.

Speaker 2: 24:37

Okay so you started to lean into it when you said you look at their resume and you see it's red threads. Wherever you want to go, look at your resume and things will show up that you have either forgotten or you didn't even realize were there. So as I and I'll just use an example to illustrate that as I've leaned more into sustainability, what suddenly clicked for me is my first role as an engineering intern at GM, and then my early engineering years was lightweight materials with the purpose of improving fuel economy. So it was sustainability. I was working on sustainability projects. It wasn't called that then, but the thread is there. I've had an interest in the space since early in my career and I think others would find this the same. Typically, your passions are sort of circling around a few.

Speaker 1: 25:39

Yeah, if you take the time to kind of look back and pay attention. I realized this recently I don't know, maybe in the last year um, running a business. I was formerly a creative in the creative field for many, many years and you know a lot of people were always kind of like why do you, why do you care about budgets and timelines and you know resources and all these things? Well, and now I love running an organization and I love managing operations. While I was in college, going to school for advertising and design, I ran a graphic design firm. I did accounts payable, accounts, receivable, did the taxes. You know I was doing all those things while I was in college. So it was kind of like, oh, I had gained these skills while I was going to school for a design firm.

Speaker 1: 26:21

I wanted to be in and around creative people doing creative things while I was learning the business and was literally learning the business and it honestly did not dawn on me. You know, 15 years later and I'm running a business, I was like, oh, this is why, this is why these things stuck out to me. So, yeah, you're exactly right, those threads are there. You just kind of have to look for them. And again, I think it's that, and I love that you call them threads, because then it's about that story that you weave and the story that you tell, cause, like you said, if you've got that MEO mindset, you're owning it right. You're the one telling that story, You're the one weaving the story and what is being told about that resume Exactly, and I don't want to suggest it's easy.

Speaker 2: 27:05

It's not and the number of hours I've spent inside my own head just trying to sort out and connect things, and we all go through the same thing. So I would also say, if you're struggling and you feel like you're all in your head, you're not alone.

Speaker 1: 27:24

Everyone, everyone struggles with figuring out where we want our careers to go, what and how we define success in life, and you're just gonna keep looking through it definitely takes time, and then, I think, also just getting having someone else to like ask the questions, to draw those things out of you, I think, to get outside of your own head, and then I would also say, to just start to, like you said, what looks like to success for you is so important, because you know it's another thing, this whole like getting outside of the whole straight like ladder climb scenario, right, this whole also. What does success look like? I think that's starting to change for people as well.

Speaker 1: 28:05

It might not mean a title and a salary number. It might mean a certain amount of flexibility, autonomy, a certain level of benefits, you know, for the sake of like health care for you or family members if they need it, peace of mind. It might mean a certain amount of culture. There's like other currency right, other than the dollars. That might mean success for you and I think that that's interesting to kind of sit with and look at as you're considering your career path as well, and I think that that's interesting to kind of sit with and look at as you're considering your career path as well, and that idea of yes Like Right Enough.

Speaker 2: 28:39

So at some point you've got to assess where you're, you're comfortable and you like all the dimensions of your life and yeah, that's a good place to get to.

Speaker 1: 28:52

We should all want to get there. Right, I agree, All right. So I kind of started to lean into this question a little bit earlier too. In your opinion, how can organizations foster a culture that supports and encourages the MEO mindset among employees, and why is it so common for us to leave our career paths in the hands of others? Would you say so kind of a two-part question?

Speaker 2: 29:20

I'll start with part two, which is it's easy. If we leave our career in the hands of someone else, then it's not on us. There's a pro and a con to that, so it's an intentional choice. There's a lot organizations can do. I feel like there's a lot of one size fits all approaches, though, and everyone is looking for something so unique and different.

Speaker 2: 29:52

I think there's opportunity for companies to really explore how you could have additional tools and resources available to help employees through some of the decisions. So I think there's opportunity both on the employee side to come in with a better idea of you know kind of owning the MEO. What do you want? What are you you know? What are you missing? Is there education that you need? Any resistance you're facing to be able to have an open conversation around your needs, and then on the company side, to really listen to you know, listen and help figure out resources and opportunities.

Speaker 2: 30:41

Maybe there isn't a full-time position, but maybe the company has a philanthropic arm where they could do some volunteer work. That starts to build a skill set and put some things on the resume that might make you ready for a position further down the road in the future, but I do think things are going to shift. I think COVID was more than a tipping point for where you work. I think it was a reflection on the role of work in your life and it really got people starting down this road of does my career have to look like the one that has been going so far, or am I at a crossroads and we're seeing rise in freelance? You're starting to see terms like fractional workers, which, the more I dig into it, it's just the new word for part-time pretty much. I mean there might be something more to it, but fractional seems very much part-time Individuals working for multiple companies to diversify that income portfolio and I think those things are going to impact how companies help employees sort of move through their career during the time they're at the company.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think this is such an important conversation for companies to be hearing right now because, you know, I think employee engagement, employee retention, all of those things are really important. You know, post COVID conversations, right now at least in like the kinds of the companies that we like partner with and and speak with, and and then those that are members within the organization. You know, if there are folks who are leaving or quiet quitting, as they have said, it's a lot to do with the fact that they don't feel like there's opportunity for growth. It's not necessarily dissatisfaction with the work that they're doing per se, it's just they don't see a path forward. It seems like such a simple solution.

Speaker 1: 33:00

I realize it takes time, money, resources, but at the same time so does looking for a new employee to replace that employee.

Speaker 1: 33:07

So I think making this kind of idea of you know, finding a way to kind of coach and mentor this MEO mindset with your employees, is a great empowerment tool that allows them to.

Speaker 1: 33:20

You know again, that could help with employee engagement and retention because it feels like you're partnering with them. You know you're building trust, you're building respect, you're working alongside them to build the life that they want right? It's like they're not just looking to make a living, they want to build a life, and that means you know they want to live a certain way. They want to have certain, a certain sense of psychological safety. They want to be able to take time away with their families. Maybe you know, if something happens with their lives, within their lives, that they can take the time they need off. They want flexibility and it's like you know it's a lot for companies to have to bear, but it's also it's a new mindset for sure. I think that a lot of folks it's going to take a while for them to sort of figure out, but those who can figure it out, crack that nut and get to it are going to see the benefits fast, in my opinion and I think there's some historical mental hierarchies that just it's got to be broken.

Speaker 2: 34:16

So there's not like full-time is up here, part Well, you're kind of an employee, but not really. If you're contract or freelance you're farther down the hierarchy. I read that 30% roughly of workforces in many industries are now not a full time employee. They're contract and we need to figure out how how to do that. Like teams are teams. The people need to work together, no matter what their employment engagement relationship is, to get great work. I 100.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Agree. Again, having come back, come from like the agency side of things, we kind of had our permalancers, as we called them back in the day, and you know these folks were like, you know they, they were the best and we, yeah, I treated them like gold because they were as much a part of the team as anybody else, and when they got pulled in, it was because we were maxed and we needed them, and so it always confused me when folks kind of discarded them as sort of like ah, they're discardable resources. Like you know, first of all, I hate it when we call people resources. Anyways, I'm like they're people, they're talent, they're skilled and you're paying them to be here. But also, yeah, it's like they're a part of the team, they contribute, they understand the team dynamic and the clients and the work. It behooves us to treat them at the same level. I agree with you as our full-time team and, again, as we become more gig economy and fractional, yeah, I agree with you, it's essential, fantastic.

Speaker 1: 35:57

All right, I'm going to just remind our live listeners. We're going to have time at the end for questions for Lori, if you guys have any questions for her about the MEO mindset or career pathing or Gallup or anything like that. Lori, how do you navigate the challenges between balancing we talked earlier about oh, I skipped ahead to a question. Hold on, let me back up. We did hint at this one earlier too, though the role of personal development. How does that play into being the MEO of your career?

Speaker 2: 36:28

In my opinion I struggle to separate the two. So earlier I did talk about the business plan kind of mindset and I think we need to be looking always at what that plan looks like for our lives. I use the eight dimensions of well-being to look at more than just the career lane to try to get to that life that feels holistic, sustainable, right for me. If you go beyond occupation, there's intellectual, physical, environmental, social, spiritual, emotional and financial, and the financial one is obviously tied, often tightly, to occupational, and that's the one where I have started talking a lot about portfolio careers. It's just the same as our investments.

Speaker 2: 37:29

We create a portfolio so that we minimize risk, we prepare for the future, and it's been interesting as I've started to think well, you know, why don't people look at their income that same kind of way? We sort of put all of our eggs in one basket, and this is not, this isn't being an advocate for working for, you know, multiple companies, but I do think it's important to at least consider if tomorrow you didn't have the income stream you have today, what is your plan B, C and D, so that you don't find yourself in a place that you're not expecting to be. So thinking about what that income portfolio looks like. Thinking about if you didn't have your mainstream role. What are all the strengths and talents that you could leverage quickly to you know, bring in other sources of income.

Speaker 1: 38:26

That's brilliant advice, lori. I mean always be looking. It doesn't matter how high up you are, how long you've been there. I have seen in this last year I've been shocked by some of the layoffs. I've seen Some folks that I'm like oh like, really big companies, really big roles that I'm like, oh like, really big companies, really big roles. That I'm like, oh, 26 years plus, years, more than that They'll never be laid off, they'll never lose their job Gone, you know.

Speaker 1: 38:50

So yeah. And also to touch on the eight dimensions of well-being. Good on you for getting them all down.

Speaker 2: 38:55

You're like counting, I was like she's gonna get them all.

Speaker 1: 38:57

I didn't want to ask you I didn't want to put you on the spot, but you did it. Um, and it harkens back to one of our live listeners, candice, I just just put in especially if it's a good salary, should you stay like that? Do you feel like that? To me that starts to kind of harken on that. Like that, those eight dimensions, right. Oftentimes we tend to kind of, like you said, put those eggs into sort of one basket, right. Right, we're like, well, if the salary is good.

Speaker 2: 39:27

And we're trained. What do you do with your career? You move up the ladder and you increase your salary. So if you're up here and you're considering something that might be new, where you take a step back, we're programmed to think, no, don't do that. And the answer might be yes, it's a right decision, and another answer might be no, this is not the right time in your life to to make that move. That's why you know thinking through all eight areas is really important.

Speaker 1: 40:04

I agree. Yeah, a good example is like for me. I left the eight like a bigger agency for a smaller company for a short while. It was a smaller business model. Everybody was gone from the office before five o'clock on most days, yet the work was done and it was done well and we worked with great clients and I made less, but you know what? My family didn't suffer for it and my wellbeing overall because those other seven little indicators all increased.

Speaker 1: 40:36

So, even though, like, the financial might've gone down, the balance returned to so many other things. So I think that's why I think those tools like those eight dimensions, kind of looking at the bigger picture versus just kind of one element of your life and career, is such an important thing to do. We talk a lot about, you know, this idea of work, life, balance and whatnot, but it's like, but there is a sense of balance at times when, again, you're kind of looking at the bigger picture and really not prioritizing one thing constantly over all the things. Right, exactly, yeah, absolutely All right. Let me go back to the question that I was jumping to next, which is how do you navigate the challenges of balancing multiple passions and roles in your career, or how do you know when a passion ought to become a profession?

Speaker 2: 41:32

It's a little bit tricky and it's almost tied to that last question about how do you know when you should leave, not leave? I listened to one of the best frameworks that I found was actually from Elizabeth Gilbert and she talks about four categories the job, a career, hobbies and vocations. And there's a video you can just search online. Elizabeth Gilbert, those four things Fabulous video. Like a job is exactly what that sounds like. You go there, you do the work and you get paid.

Speaker 2: 42:11

And it is fine to have a job that you don't absolutely love. You're good at it, it pays the bills and that's your job. The hobbies are things that you love to do and you would do whether you needed to or not. The vocation is the thing that you feel you're called to do, like it's the calling from inside. And what I think is interesting is hobbies, vocations and jobs can all become careers over time. Hobbies, vocations and jobs can all become careers over time and sorting out where your interests lie and what falls in which bucket at any given time is a pretty interesting exercise and you start to learn things.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Like an example for me I love photography, I got my certification. An example for me I love photography, I got my certification. I occasionally do professional photos and senior photos. But when I started to do more, what I quickly realized is like it became a job. I didn't want it to be a job. I love it as a hobby. So I'll still take on a job from time to time, but very often because if I do it I want to love it and if I do too many I stop loving it. So that's also kind of a gauge of where it fits in the four.

Speaker 1: 43:35

That makes a lot of sense. And I think too earlier what you said about like the gaps too, like I wonder if would you ever kind of consider sort of one of those hobbies kind of becoming a job for a time being, when you find that you're looking for a job but it's like so we've got a lot of job seekers within our together digital community, for example, but they're also multi-talented women. Some of them do photography, some of them make jewelry, and then I'll see them sort of kind of pick up that hobby and start making extra money off of it outside of that, because job seeking is it's soul-sucking, honestly, especially in this economy, and so they get a little bit of an extra like a nice little dopamine hit.

Speaker 2: 44:11

They can be social, but they're also making a little bit of money and they're not spending like all their time, day and night, job searching well, and what I have learned is there's actually like a lot of good, you know, resume talent to be put, because if you're going to sell something and you sell it online, guess what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 44:35

You understand e-commerce if you're promoting yourself through social media. So, even though it may feel like a hobby or a little side project, there are relevant digital marketing things. I remember years ago telling someone when I started my first side business that it should be a requirement of anyone in corporate America that they have to have their own website and like sell something, have to have their own website and like sell something. It could even be partnering with someone at the local high school who's taking an art class. Because you learn so much about marketing platforms and just relationship marketing in general and e-commerce and if they've got a brand for it.

Speaker 2: 45:19

Branding, likeing, like you're putting on all the hats and so someone in a gap like acknowledge all that stuff you're learning.

Speaker 1: 45:28

Yeah, yeah, it's a part of your portfolio, it's a part of your experience. Yeah, it's so funny how people just don't tend to acknowledge or see that and it's like, oh yeah, I do do all those things. I think that's. Maybe that's a worthwhile exercise too. Right, it's just sitting down with a trusted friend or you know, if you're a Together Digital member, another member, and just having a coffee chat and saying, you know, like, tell me some things that you notice, like it's within my skill set that I talk about or that I do, because I do think that we do.

Speaker 1: 45:57

We tend to not credit ourselves with our skills and abilities Yet, like, we tend to not credit ourselves with our skills and abilities yet. Like again, I'm just thinking of at least three other members of ours right now and I'm like, yeah, branding, e-commerce, digital marketing, social media management they're doing all these things right now, while they're job seeking and sales, by the way, and media and PR, because some of them have been featured on the news with what they've been making and all these amazing things, and it's like gosh, I hope you're adding the stuff to your resume If you're listening, ladies.

Speaker 2: 46:28

Because sometimes we're, we're almost blind to our own strengths. It comes so naturally and so easily, we're just doing it. We're like that. I would put that on my resume. It's like yes, yes, you should put it on there.

Speaker 1: 46:43

Not everyone can do that. It's almost too obvious to us, right.

Speaker 2: 46:47

Exactly, exactly, and I think it's a great exercise to ask those around you what they see as your.

Speaker 1: 46:56

You know core talents and elements of your brand, and I do love what you said about just kind of understanding that delineation of and maybe if Kaylee is still on with us she can find the link, if not, we'll include it in the show notes to the Elizabeth Gilbert kind of construct of job, career, hobby and vocation. I think that is cool. I know that you know it, can't you want to kind of tiptoe into that space and you know, having a number of hobbies, I feel you like you kind of want to be like can I make this a job? But then it's like, like you said, you kind of get into it and you're like, eh, this is the same thing.

Speaker 1: 47:32

Like photography. People are like you take such great photos and I'm definitely amateur, I've not gotten certified in squat, I took like maybe one college photography class but yeah, I'm like I don't think I would ever try to make it like a business because I just don't think I think that joy, part of it would kind of go out the window. So I totally understand what you're saying when you're like kind of notice that feeling and it's like if you start to lose that passion because now you've kind of commoditized it, then maybe it's not, maybe it just stays a hobby.

Speaker 2: 48:01

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 48:02

All right, we are just wrapping up Live listeners. If you want to have a chance to drop a question into the chat, please feel free to do that. Also, we have some links in the chat and we'll include them in the show note. If you want to connect with Lori, you can through LinkedIn. You can also make an appointment with her. If you want to chat more about career pathing and if you want to read her book One Shade Greener about being more sustainable at home, you can do that. I love that. That thread is kind of throughout your whole mindset. I don't even know if you probably do realize this, but earlier you were talking to about when you're talking about the eight dimensions. I felt like you were even tiptoeing on like just living sustainably for yourself. Even I love it. There's that thread again.

Speaker 2: 48:43

Oh, sometimes they want to create a sustainable life Like that means it means you're able to handle all of the things in your life. You don't want a dimension to become unsustainable, and I think occupation is one that a lot of people risk tilting the whole equation.

Speaker 1: 49:04

I agree, and right now I will say too we have a lot of women leaving the workforce and we don't need more of that. We don't need any more of that. We need women staying in the workforce, I agree, all right. Well, the last question I have for you, lori, is what are some good reading, research and or resources for our listeners to kind of dig in more to this topic, outside of, of course, checking in with you and connecting with you?

Speaker 2: 49:28

I enjoyed. If you feel like you are a multi-passionate with a lot of different interests, sarah Beth Burke wrote a book called More Than my title I think it's my title and it's just a great book. A great book and it has a companion book, and so that's a really good one for people who feel like they are more of a Venn diagram than a line, so that's a good one. Another one is called business model you and it has a lot of just activities, things to fill out, gets you thinking about yourself. And the last one is a book called the search by bruce filer, and bruce has been on a number of podcasts lately talking about the book and he covers five types of jobs, so like the job job, the side job, the hope job, the care job and the ghost job and it's it's an interesting framework. I would listen to a few of his podcasts and, if it resonates, maybe check out his book.

Speaker 1: 50:40

That sounds fantastic. Lori, thank you so much. This is such a great conversation. I hope that those were listening live today with us got something out of it, those who check out the podcast later. I think it's such a fascinating time in our world, in the workforce and for careers, and what it means to be in it. You know, I, I am, I'm so fascinated by it and I really hope this whole MEO mindset takes off and I hope that it helps to empower a lot of people to kind of shape and create the lives and the careers that they want. Awesome, great. Thank you so much, of course, fantastic. Well, that's it. That's all we have for you guys this week.

Speaker 1: 51:20

We hope to see you again with us next week. We've got zanti ho with us and she is the managing director of convince convert. She's going to be talking with us about data personalization, um, and our data. Yes, yeah, data like data-driven personalization. I knew there was a word I was missing data-driven personalization. She also has a book coming out next month. Love it. We've got all these great book authors coming on. So, yeah, we look forward to having you there with us. If you want to check it out, go onto the website togetherindigitalcom. Make sure you register. If till then, keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. We will see you all next week. Take care, bye, everybody.