Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Claim Your Career Happiness | Julie Bauke | Power Lounge S3 E06
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THIS WEEK'S TOPIC:
Welcome to the Power Lounge, the place where the quest for career happiness is more than just a dream—it's a tangible goal that you can grasp. Alongside career development sage Julie Balkie, we're peeling back the layers on what it truly means to find joy in your work. From aligning your passions with market demands to overcoming the fear that clings to the heels of change, we've got your roadmap ready. It’s time to swap the dead weight of an unfulfilling job for a career that lights up your life, and we're here to show you how.
Dive into the heart of the matter with a look at the ever-shifting landscape of the workplace—where the rules of the career game are being rewritten every day. We tackle the tough questions, like how to keep your skills sharp in a world that doesn’t slow down, and the necessary steps to ensure your career path complements the rest of your life chapters. Julie and I share our thoughts on why embracing personal responsibility for your professional growth isn't just good practice; it's essential for navigating the modern workforce. Say goodbye to the bygone era of lifelong company tenure and hello to a career that evolves with you.
Wrapping up this journey, we uncover the transformative power of networking, and it's not just about collecting business cards. Julie and I break down the art of creating meaningful connections, tapping into the wellspring of resilience when setbacks hit, and how to own your career narrative with confidence. Our discussions span the gamut from the importance of self-awareness to the rejuvenation found in life's intentional pauses. So close that job search tab, grab a comfortable seat, and let's step confidently into a future where your career happiness isn't just a possibility—it’s your new reality.
LINKS
The Bauke Group
Julie's LinkedIn
Power Lounge S3 E03
Sponsored by: COhatch
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Welcome to our weekly Power Lounge, your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. Join the movement at wwwtogetherindigitalcom. Let's get started. Today, we're going to dive into the essence of career happiness and the art of crafting a fulfilling professional journey. Julie Balkie, a seasoned expert with over 25 years of experience working with executives, professional athletes and individuals across various industries, is going to be our guide. Julie is a sought after national expert, workshop facilitator and keynote speaker. Julie has been featured by more than 100 prominent media outlets, including CNBC, money Magazine and weekly TV segments with the Scripps News Network. She is a regular contributor to top radio stations in New York, chicago, dallas, san Francisco, san Diego and Miami. Julie, we're so excited to have you here with us today. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm happy to be here talking about my absolute favorite topic, which is your career happiness.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Now, some of you might find Julie familiar. She was so gracious to come and lead a workshop on this exact topic with some of our members. So, members, be sure to check out our library of content, which is rather robust, but we will be sure to share that link out to our members slack as well. Be sure to check that out if you really want to get into the nitty gritty and more hands on.
Speaker 1:But I also just wanted to bring this conversation to the larger audience and to the greater world because, julie, as you know, I own and operate together digital. It's a network for women who are professionals and we were just talking about this before. We have done, we have been a lot of actionists, we're moms, we're caretakers, we are really hard workers. Often our happiness gets put to the back burner and we don't necessarily see career and happiness as two coexisting things. So I really do love the rally card that you've created for your business and how you're helping others create career happiness. So I'm curious for our listeners to get a little bit more understanding of who you are and where you came from and how this came to be. How did career happiness become the rallying cry for you personally and for your business?
Speaker 2:My first 16 years of my career. I was in human resources and I had so many people coming to see me to complain about the color of the walls that branded the tater tots Whatever it was just like it just would occur to me these are just miserably unhappy people who don't want to be here, but they don't know what to do about it, and I just became just fascinated by the concept of settling for a job or a place of employment, a role that is making you miserably unhappy. And so when I left HR because I couldn't stand it anymore in the late 90s and went on this journey of becoming a career development and career management expert, for nine years I worked with companies. I worked with people who had just been like though. I worked in out placement, with people who'd been let go, and what was fascinating to me was how many of them would say to me at some point they probably did me a favor, I was miserable and so like why did you stay if you were miserable?
Speaker 2:And it's fear, it's not knowing what to do next, it's feeling like once you commit to a company or a job, you have to stick with it. It was family pressures. There was so many things that kept people stuck that when I went out on my own in 2007, I said this is going to be all about career happiness at every stage of your career life cycle. And so it's just. I always say I'm wildly career happy, and so I know what a positive impact that has on all sectors of my life, and so I want it for others.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Nothing like hearing and seeing a problem over and over again and then really just leaning into finding a way to help others overcome it. And we're going to kind of get to some of those specifics and ways in which you've helped to support others and help them, encourage them to find their career happiness. Because so much is based on societal pressures, norms, things like that, things that we think might make us happy, that don't end up making us happy at all. But so let's stick into that a little bit. Let's just define what career happiness is. What does that even mean to you, julie, and how do you start to help individuals identify career happiness in their professional lives?
Speaker 2:So if you think about, like, if you go to your doctor and you say I don't feel good, the first thing they're going to say is where does it hurt? And so we take that same approach. So career happiness is a four-legged stool and each of those legs has to be solid or the whole thing comes tumbling down Four pieces. Four things have to exist for you to be career happy. You have to be good at what you do, at least good, at least good, hopefully great. You have to like what you do. If you're lucky, you love it. So being good at something and liking it is a start.
Speaker 2:The third leg is you have to be able to get paid for it. I mean, in other words, there has to be demand in the market for it. If you can't get paid for it, it's just a hobby, that's okay. But you can't make a career out of a hobby if you need salary. So not only does it have to be in demand in the market, but it has to pay some what you need to live. So you have to be realistic there.
Speaker 2:And the fourth leg of this tool frankly is the biggest one and it is the reason why most people say they didn't like a particular job, and that is you have to be working in a place in a way you can be successful, which is a lot of words to say. You have to be in the right culture. So when I ask people, when I say, okay, here are the four legs of the career happiness stool think about the worst job you've ever had. What was it? What? What leg of that stool was the weakest? What was the one that caused the whole thing to tumble down? Two thirds to three quarters of people? It's that fourth stool. It's either a bad leader, bad culture, bad environment, and so a lot of times we're good at what we do and we like it and we get paid well, but if you're not doing it in the right place, the right people in the right situation in which you can be successful, you will be career unhappy.
Speaker 2:So the first thing we do with people is help them figure out what's not working, what's the wobbly leg of the stool, and before, until you are can can recognize that and really articulate what's not working or where the pain is, you can't even begin to think about solving it. And so there's this diagnosis of your situation. That has to happen, versus just going out and willy-nilly trying a hundred things and hoping you land something. So those are the four pieces of career happiness. The trick of this is you can be career happy on Friday.
Speaker 2:On Monday you get a new bar the responsibilities on your desk change, the whole thing comes tumbling down and your definition of career happiness will change as you change and your life changes.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So it's not a destination, it's a tool that you use to manage your career.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's such a nice framework and I think it really helps to simplify what sometimes feels very big and convoluted and complex. Before we move on to the next question, I'm going to pause just for a moment. Julie, for some reason your audio got really quiet. Maybe we switch away from your earbuds just to your computer audio. Okay, I also want to make sure that we're getting clear audio on you, because when we checked earlier it was fine and I was just talking with Kaylee. She's like yeah, I got quiet too. I don't know if our live listeners are having trouble listening. I was like maybe it's just my headphones, but Is this any better?
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yeah, dall was agreeing. Yeah, it was a bit quiet, that's better. Okay, cool, okay so for happiness.
Speaker 2:Four legs of a stool. Identify the wobbly leg, then you know where to dive in and start what to fix. You don't want to be fixing the wrong problem. What I see is that people will be like they're unhappy and they think, well, maybe I just need a different job. Well, you can't. It's like you're fixing. If you're fixing your car, you don't want to change out the wrong parts. Right, you really have to be really open and honest with yourself about what's not working. Then you have to commit to actually taking action to change it.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. That sounds like an excellent practice to go through and, by the way, for our live listeners, because I feel I can't see all of you because you don't have your cameras on, but I feel people leaning in. I'm like, ooh, yes, I need to do this work, I need to figure this out. So we will definitely share, within the chat, ways in which you can connect with Julie. Oh, of course, kaylee's already gotten to it. Thanks, kaylee, and we'll include that in the show notes as well. All right, julie, then for the next question. You've talked a bit in the past, through the workshops and through some of the writing that I've read of yours. You've talked about unraveling the secrets to lasting career happiness and success. What are some practical steps that you would recommend for us to help achieve that sort of sense of long lasting career happiness? Because, like you said, it evolves. Things change over time. Our priorities are values, situations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, things change in our lives, but also things change in the world around us. Things change in what work looks like, what the job market expects. I mean, look at the huge difference. For those of you over a certain age, like I am, wow, things are so different than they used to be. It is up to you to bend, flex and adjust to what is, versus standing on your lawn shaking your fist at the world and saying, well, this isn't the way I do it, this isn't the way it used to be. I like the old way. Yeah, there's two things there's self-awareness, there's market and world awareness. And one of my favorite things is it's called your career for a reason. You have to be the one that makes those moves. So what we're seeing now is there used to be the model used to be. Your company will train you whatever they need you to do. No, you have to stay employable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so a couple of things. Staying employable means keeping your skills and your knowledge up to date and keeping one eye on the market what's the market looking for? And you also have to operate from the inside out. So, if you are we use a phrase in our company that you want your career to serve your life, not your life to serve your career so we need I want my career to serve my life what's the one in my life right now? Yeah, that might need me to tweak, to tweak what I'm doing at work, and you have to kind of bend and flex. And we're in a really flexible world right now, even though there's a lot of frustration and angst with how it's all playing out. But this really has to start from an inside out place. What do I want? What are my must-haves? What are my like to have? Must have, want kind of like to have, don't want, never again. You know, what do I want more of? And getting really clear on how to align your work and your life.
Speaker 2:This has become so critical here in the last several years. We think about the way it used to be and you know it doesn't feel like it was that long ago, if your manager wanted to call you at home. They had to get out ye old phone book, the white pages, and look you up and call your home phone and maybe have to talk to your teenager. So they didn't. You know there was a line.
Speaker 2:You went home at a certain time and you were done until the next morning and so if you were unhappy at work you could hide it Because you're like, ok, I'm going to walk in the door and I'm going to fake it until tomorrow morning and, miserable again, it's gone. It's gone. If you're in a bad job that seeps over into whole parts of your life Are you getting texts, are you getting Slack messages, are you getting contacted late at night, and that, if you hate your job, then it's like you know, kind of it's like jarring. But if you love your job, like I do, you love what you do, and I'm guessing, amy, you do as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Then it's not a bother. You know everything's seamless. I don't mind doing stuff on Saturday or Sunday because I love it and it's. You know that's a risk too. You don't want to become your career, to become your whole life, but you've got to look at all the pieces of your life together. We can't compartmentalize anymore. Technology is all of that away.
Speaker 1:Those days are long gone. I love that idea of that mindset shift. It's like I think a similar saying is instead of how's it working for a living or living to work, you know it's like are you working to make ends meet and pay bills or is this literally your whole life? And I think I'm kind of curious. This is a bit of an off-script question. I'm curious. As you're speaking it is.
Speaker 1:It's taking me back to the fact that my dad has been with the same company for 45 years. He'll be retiring soon and that's such an unheard of thing. He started sweeping floors there when he first came into the country and when he was still learning English, and now he has a big job where he travels constantly and, like I said, has kind of really moved up through the ranks, and that's the way it used to be. And then the idea of career happiness. This is kind of getting to my question. I don't even think it was really a thing. Right, you just did it. So what do you think it is? What is it about these last few generations of folks that is really enticing us to be persistent about pursuing career happiness? Because I don't think this was even a conversation 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:But I think we saw a lot of us saw our parents and older people in our lives be absolutely miserable. We saw them retire at 62, 65, and die 6 to 12 months later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:And there was also this pension waiting at the end. So we started someplace at 22. Man, if I can just hang on for 40 years or say, when you're 52, just 10 more years, then I'm going to have the Golden Goose and we just those generations and I'm a boomer, so I get it. It was really a slog, but we saw, and our kids saw, the effect on us and other people. They knew that that wasn't the way to go. That wasn't.
Speaker 2:And so you see it now with and I even as much as like Maya, the 29-year-old son and wife is also 29,. They both have really great jobs and they're like, yeah, we really want to take a sabbatical. And the boomer in me is like, what you know, like you Right, why should you have to work 40 years before you're allowed to have fun? And so these generations are saying we're not going to do it that way, we're going to have fun now. And what's so cool is these career breaks are becoming normal, more normal, because you don't like. I remember back when I was in HR, there was this, like you know oh, wait a minute, they have a gap in their resume.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the assumption was.
Speaker 2:You were in prison or something. It couldn't be anything but prison, you know, and you were seen as not dedicated, unfocused, unmotivated, not committed, and we are slowly changing that. And so this idea of what we're seeing is and my son actually asked me you know, what do you think of this when people do this? I said you can explain it, and what you're going to see is the only people are going to push back on it are crustal boomers and I always feel like I can say that, as I am, you can oh, what's so interesting? And people who are just jealous.
Speaker 1:Most people are going to be like oh I want to do that.
Speaker 2:So it's just a different time and don't wait until, because you're not guaranteed that. So what can you do to blind us off? And what's so interesting is when I talk to especially Gen Z well, you know, I'm so frustrated. Someone had my parents are telling me this and I'll say OK, stop listening to your parents. I said I don't know what we're saying that, but they're giving you boomer advice and they're giving you the only advice they know how to give you Exactly. Yeah, but it's not. You know, we're the generation that if you were there less than 10 years, you were a job hopper.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And we it's, it's a 180.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:I love this and these companies and these leaders who are fighting this. I'm like you're gonna lose because you are not on your side. No, unfortunately right. Get with it now, or be standing there by yourself, you know, pounding your your fist on the desk, wondering where everybody is right, they're all on sabbatical, so proclaim sabbatical, they will quit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so funny. I worked for an agency several years ago that Started to bring sabbaticals into a part of their employee overall benefits. Once you've been there a certain number of years, you were able to go out on a sabbatical and I think that's wonderful. I think the other side of this Julie that like it kind of cracks me up. I was listening I think it was maybe to like the radio the other day I don't know exactly what show, and they were talking about recent Google search results and trends and one of the things they were noticing was that 30 year olds were typing in a lot of how do I retire at 40?
Speaker 2:You know and I hear this and I think if you were in the right job you wouldn't want to retire at 40.
Speaker 1:We're right. That's such a good point, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:but that's what I say. You know, I these. Yeah, I've been working on trying to build a relationship with a financial planning, a big financial planning firm, but how it's? To me it's so obvious that, instead of your people coming in and saying how soon can I retire, what if you had an option and you, you directed them to stuff, to what we do to help them get the right job. Yeah, you know, and if you, if you're in the right job, I, you know. When people say to me, so when are you gonna retire? And like I don't know, as long as I'm still having fun, you're not watching the clock because you're in slow. Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I, it's not there. I'll tell you what. There's nothing. I there are no hobbies or things that I would like to do that I would enjoy more than what I do Exactly, and that's so powerful when you live in that because you don't feel that need.
Speaker 2:You aren't living. You aren't living. Five days to be offered to, that's not the way you live in your life. And I just want that for everybody.
Speaker 1:I love it, me too, me too. You know awesome. Let's talk a bit about chapters and our lives and our careers and and trying to get those chapters Within our career to align a bit with our lives. Are there some insights to this approach that you can share and how it helps us experience a more fulfilling and holistic professional journey when we kind of consider both life and career chapters?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the first thing I want everybody to embrace is, is, and, and. If you can embrace this idea of career chapters, I promise, I promise that you will Relax. So what do we ask? 22 year olds, 21 year olds, 20 year olds, 19 year olds, 18 year olds, so what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2:with the rest of your life, do with your career, and Wow, that's a horrible question. It is what are you gonna? Because we're asking somebody who hasn't lived yet, mm-hmm, and so the pressure that we still put on people and then ourselves, mm-hmm, have one answer it's overwhelming. So when people say to me also people say to me people in their fifties, all people say to me I Still don't know what I want to be when I grow up and I hate this, I hate it. You want to make me cringe. Say that to me Like hey, look in the mirror, you're growing up figured out, yeah.
Speaker 2:And, and what that implies is, there's one magic answer out there. Oh, exactly and there isn't, because the you at 22, 32, 42, 52 and 62 are different and what you need professionally is going to differ. And so this idea that you can have a small business For three to five years then decide that was a great experience but I want to do different.
Speaker 2:You might go work me Maybe you're in marketing communications in your business. Then you decide you know what I want to take my skills and go work for a nonprofit that focuses on something I care about, and you might do that for three to five years. Then you might go work for a small company. Then you might go back to heaven, it's, it's okay. Yeah, no, about 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:I remember this 15, 20 years ago was like you know, you're really undecided and it's not bad anymore, and so now there are different professional options that will fit best with your life. That's why I say this has to be an inside out. Yeah, be inside out. What do you want, what do you need? And then how can you wrap your what you do around it and honor the different places you are in your life? And for women, I think we have even a better opportunity for that, because if you have kids, that's a different level of stress and responsibility on you. If you're, it still calls mostly on us, unfortunately. If you have elderly parents, that you're responsible for if you, you know, if you.
Speaker 2:So what is it? We have the opportunity to flex as we go through our lives in a way that we never have had a chance to do that, that we never have before. But what we have to do is we have to have a framework and we have to know how to tackle that. It all starts with who am I and what do I want? And those are big, scary, scary Harry.
Speaker 1:They are you, especially, I think, for women, again, because of societal pressures and norms and comparison traps. It's, how often do we ever think about that for one and then two, when we are asked that it's like deer and headlights, yeah, these women.
Speaker 2:I'm not allowed to want anything here. Um, I exactly. Oh, I really want that, but I'm never gonna get it. What?
Speaker 1:do you want?
Speaker 2:to talk about you.
Speaker 1:It just drives me crazy, yeah it's a really hard thing to get out of it is, and you know what I'd love to say.
Speaker 2:I haven't mastered, but I don't. I mean, we all struggle with it.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, it takes time and it takes practice, but what I think you're you're speaking to, it's just very, at least for me it's very. It feels very liberating. Um, because I understand, you know, mentoring, coaching and and having a number of members within our organization that are kind of, you know, in career pivot moments, life pivot moments, job seeking moments that it can feel very Overwhelming and as if the narrative in your career are what's driving you. And I love all of the advice you always give, julie, because it's really about you taking the power, taking the steering wheel and owning your story and your career. We did get a quick question from dal, one of our live listeners. I'm gonna jump to that real quick before I go to the next question. Uh, any advice for people who had a string of professional experiences that have made them reflexively think never again. Uh, and all of the are, there are hard skills. It's a bit paralyzing. I'm sure some folks can relate to dal's question.
Speaker 2:So, dal, if you and I were sitting across the desk from each other, I'd say tell me about never again. So this gets back to the career happiness formula. What was it about each of these things that that made it so un, so unpalatable, and what are the themes and common threads in them? So, and then, how much? That is you, frankly you know? Do you just keep going for jobs that you think you're better you're better at than you actually are, or do you keep picking cultures that are really misaligned with who you are? So you've got to look back and say what, why never again? And really break that down. What are the circumstances? What are the things that you liked and didn't like?
Speaker 2:So I'm going to show you, I'm going to show you an exercise with a piece of paper. Okay, so here's a piece of paper. Go across the top and write down every major experience you've had Last job, job before that, maybe a big community activity you were involved in, volunteer job, job, job. This is so simple, but it can help crystallize and help you see things. Fold the paper in half, below, on top of the fold. Write down everything you liked about this, about every single experience you've had where there was the people and what you liked about the people. Then, on the bottom of the page, write what you didn't like about each of those things. Those are what we call in the biz kids clues. Those will tell you what is it you want to look at.
Speaker 2:The goal is to find your next thing that has as many, as much of this as possible and as little of this as possible. In other words, you want to reconfigure the information and say that job sucked, that job sucked. Why did it suck? What sucked about it? Then? What were the pieces that you actually liked? You start to create a narrative or a story about what works for you and what doesn't, instead of looking at your jobs like this. You're going to look across this because, with the six experiences you list across the top, the only thing they have in common is you what worked for you here and what worked for you here? What worked for you here? On the bottom, what didn't work for you, what didn't work for you? You start to create a story and so you know what to go toward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the good news, del, is oftentimes, if it's hard to figure out what you do want, knowing what you don't want is a really good place to start, sure is.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a really good place to start. Awesome, well, listeners, keep the questions coming in the chat and then at the end, if you want to come off of mute and add a question at the end, you absolutely can. Awesome, all right, next question for you, julie. I'm excited to chat about this one. Obviously, I own an organization that is a network that advocates for women. I personally am working hard to help close what I'm calling the networking gap, because women do not network as much as men. We don't have the same support systems that men do. We aren't encouraged, like men, to network. I'm curious how have you seen intentional networking propel careers forward with intention and purpose? Could you possibly share an example?
Speaker 2:Here's my definition of networking Building and maintaining mutually beneficial relationships that support your goals. The key phrase in that is that support your goals. If you've ever gone to a networking event and you're like, I don't know why I'm going, I'm going because somebody told me I should network, yeah, I'm pretty certain you didn't get anything out of it.
Speaker 2:You went, you had lunch, you chatted with somebody about the weather, about the traffic, and then you left. You can have a really robust network without ever going to an event with a bunch of strangers. I don't like those kind of things. I don't go, I find them, I just don't go. But I have a super strong network. What I've done is given what my goals are, and this is where, if you don't know where you're trying to go, what job you're trying to get, what you're looking to earn, what you want to get more of, then you don't know who to network with. Yeah, the whole idea that everybody's a networking contact sure, maybe they could be.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:The first thing about women, in particular Amy, is that we are very comfortable networking personally. Hey, could you take a little Johnny to soccer practice on Tuesday and I'll take a little Timmy on Thursday? Yeah, sure, no problem. Super comfortable with that, right? We don't ask people in the checkout line behind us at Target to take our kids to soccer practice for a reason, right? So we are good at building networks around our personal goals. How am I going to get? Are you going to the store? Can you pick me up a pound of pasta, are you? You know, would you mind stopping by? We're really good at that because that mom network or that women network were super comfortable asking for that. Yeah, because we're really. We're good at building relationships much better.
Speaker 2:That's why men, they say, are much lonelier, especially the older they get, because they are more good at having friendships. Yeah, so if you think about how do you get things done in your personal life, why should it be any different in your professional life? It shouldn't you just have to get clear Are you looking to learn more about a particular tool? Are you looking to learn more about a particular industry? Yeah, so I would like to move from here to here. I want to learn more about this. Looking to the question becomes who do I know? Or who do I know who might know somebody who can help advance my interest, advance me toward my goals? It's about intention. It's about reaching out and asking for help. It's about putting yourself out there and being specific. Don't just say you know, just you know. I'm looking for a new job. Can you help? Yeah, that's not going to fly.
Speaker 1:No, Nobody wants to be on the other side of that. No no.
Speaker 2:So be specific. I'm looking to learn more about how you built your organization. Amy, would you be willing to hop on a call for 20 minutes and share some of your best tips with me? That's super specific. Yeah, you give Amy an opportunity to say yes or no. You also help her know how to show up. I get those big, vague questions. Yeah, it's so frustrating, because I'm a user, that you're asking hey. So another cringe. If you want to make me cringe, say let me pick your brain. Say pick your brain, because I'm like there's not much left. Right, that's what I was going to say, nothing to say. So it's being super specific instead of I mean, I will never forget this. One guy said to me one time he goes networking doesn't work and I said why do you say that? Well, I'm looking for a job and I've networked with 120 people. And I said OK, ok, I said, well, tell me what you're looking to do. And he couldn't tell me what he's looking to do next. I'm like you haven't networked, you've wasted the time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I think that's so great.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, yeah. So be intentional, be focused, get clear on what you want. If you don't have any goals, then my advice to you is your goal is to set a goal. Set some goals.
Speaker 1:What do?
Speaker 2:you want out of your career? What do you want to learn more about? What do you want to dive into? What do you want to explore? What do you think you might want to do next?
Speaker 1:Just start with that. Co-hatch is a new kind of shared work, social and family space built on community. Members get access to workspace amenities like rock walls and sports simulators and more, to live a fully integrated life that balances work, family, well-being, community and giving back. Co-hatch has 31 locations open or under construction nationwide throughout Ohio, indiana, Florida, pennsylvania, north Carolina, georgia and Tennessee. Visit wwwcohatchcom for more information.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I think another key part of it that really struck me too in your definition was mutually beneficial.
Speaker 1:I feel, having talked to a number of women for the book that I'm writing about the Networking Gap, I just realized after several interviews that there's a lot of shame and guilt around the idea of networking because we are showing up and we are self-promoting and we are asking, and I feel like a part of the antidote to that is if they're going through the practice of understanding who they are, what their goals are, what their personal mission is, but then also understanding what they bring to the table is quite another thing, and so when you can walk into a room and know what you have to offer others in the way of help, it helps them help you as well, because it feels mutually beneficial and not one-sided, especially when, again, job seekers will start.
Speaker 1:They don't network until they need a job. And then it's like you feel like crap because now you're unemployed and you feel like you're just going around begging people to connect. But if you actually just maintain a consistent, intentional set of relationships that were mutually beneficial, then when a moment like that comes up and you need a job, how much easier it is to reach out to a connection who already knows you, respects you it's a give and a take and is going to be willing to step in and help you sort of kind of overcome that momentary lapse in a job. So, yeah, I mean I could.
Speaker 2:No, if you don't know what you have to offer, just the fact that you say to somebody after they've been helpful to you, please let me know how I can help you. Yes, now or in the future. One of my pet peeves is when I help, when I network with someone and I will say to them let me know how it goes, let me know how I try, I give them ideas. Yeah, let me know how it goes. I'm going to tell you that eight out of 10 people don't do it.
Speaker 1:I agree, and it always makes me sad.
Speaker 2:Don't ever ask me for help again, please.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm like I want to know. I give you a really awesome opportunity to help me what happened?
Speaker 2:Or you see somebody landed a job on LinkedIn and you're like, wait a minute, I introduced them. Yeah, Yay, but at least circle back and say close the loop.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:That honestly, that makes you feel used.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, we're going to have to get back together and talk a little nice rant about networking.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I love it. Thank you, nicole. One of our members is listening with us right now, live and said that Together Digital has taught me to always ask how can I help you? And I agree that is a big practice One asking in general, just building up that muscle and learning how to ask, but then also being open and willing to give. We have a whole ask and give practice. So thanks for the shout out, nicole, we appreciate it and you of course. All right, let's talk about how I'm going to skip to the next question, because I feel like that one was kind of a repeat. I feel like we dug deep on that last networking question, so I'm going to skip to the next one. What do you believe are the critical components of understanding career happiness, julie? Where the hell do we even start? I think we kind of started to lay out some of that framework, but is there anything else you want to add to that?
Speaker 2:You know, getting it. You know, I think self-awareness is absolutely critical. We launched a program called Career Catalyst. It's an online program available on our website that walks you through how to figure out who you are and what you want and how to tell your story. And step number one of the seven is self-awareness. And again it's that inside out process and we get really tempted or we want to fall into. I can be everything to everybody. Yep, good at everything? No, you're not. So that self-awareness and that look, if you want somebody to do these things and do them happily, as I say, skipping to the shower, then me. But if you want someone to do these things, you're going to be better off finding somebody else. Self-awareness is attractive Understanding what's working for me today, what isn't working for me, what would I change if I could. One of my favorite questions is take a snapshot of where you are today and say what's working.
Speaker 2:If I could take, look at your plate, if I could take on my plate, if I could say, all right, what kind? If I could move something off here, what would it be? And if I could add something in, what would it be? And one of my other questions is what do I want? More of, less of never again? If you could rearrange your plate, your day, your week, what would you take off and what would you get back on? The goal is to stay in the lane as close as you can to what you want, and the more you move toward that and keep that awareness and the more you find something that's a good fit for you and you don't feel like you're a size seven and you're putting on size six shoes, the happier you're going to be. So it starts with that. Think about interview questions. Okay, there's, there are questions that we get ready for when we interview. Tell me about yourself, that's my least favorite what?
Speaker 2:are your strengths right? You should always be able to answer those questions. Oh yeah, yes, always. And I always say like, when I'm speaking to customer groups, like intact customer groups, companies, I will say pretend you get on the elevator with the CEO of your company. You've never met them before. And they say to you so, fred, what do you do for this company? Why do we keep you around? What's your story about yourself? Most of us would reach for the fire button, fire alarm button, and run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Head to head. I work in marketing. And because we can't state our value.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So powerful to be able to state your value, and if you think about when you go on an interview, that's what they're asking you, isn't? It Isn't talking about yourself and what are your strengths? Aren't they trying to understand your value? So why do we only try to do that when we're in job search? It's so powerful if you're able to answer that question at any time.
Speaker 2:At any time. What are three things you're great at? What are the three things, amy, that if I need somebody to do these three things, you're gonna be like, yep, I can rock all three of those things. What are the three things you don't want me to come to you for? That's self-awareness. And if you're not sure how to get that, point two of Curricadalyst is reputation management. It's a little trick on this is if you start I don't want to brag, I don't want to talk about myself. Here's a way to communicate your value in a way that might be more comfortable. Ask yourself what do people come to me for? What do people come to me for? People do not come to me for data, for managing anything that's analytical in nature, thank God, but they do come to me for these things. So get really clear on people. Tell me that I'm, I've been recognized for, I've been good at Think of those now.
Speaker 2:If you're not, if you get go-to self-awareness and you're like I don't know what I'm good at. I still don't know, then take the other tack. Say to yourself people tell me that I'm I'm recognized for. In my last performance appraisal, my leaders told me that this is what people appreciate about me. So start with those steps.
Speaker 2:I love it and if those resonate with you, if you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. People say that that's true. Here's the thing is when we're really good at something, it's neck breathing. It's sort of like, why do we get credit for breathing? No, and so when people you're so good at that, you think to yourself isn't everybody but what do? We, so we don't. We don't often gives ourselves credit Exactly For the things that come easy to us.
Speaker 2:And but that's where our value lies and so get really clear on what those what's those things are Like. If I know that I, if I get on a radio show or a TV show that I know that millions of people are gonna be seeing, my heart rate doesn't even increase, it doesn't bother me at all, it's awesome. There's plenty of other things that I'm like oh, you know the big things that I can't do. So you've got to get really clear. Yeah, what it is that, what do people come to you for? And don't stay as close to that as possible and try to build a career around that, even though it might look different as you go through your life.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, and I think, too, what it's reminding me of is that you know, I don't know I probably spent 15 years on that agency Hamster Reel just running and running and running. I never slowed down the work that Julia's talking about, the frameworks that she's giving us today, the practice and self-awareness. It requires you to slow down, ladies, so I'm sorry you're not gonna be able to keep going 100 miles an hour. If you want to find satisfaction and happiness, you really, truly do have to begin to slow down and take the time to think through these things. Give yourself not just the physical space and time, like putting it on your calendar, but then I would say, also just the mental and the emotional time. One thing I did this year that I'm super proud of was created a quarterly Me Treat Day, where it's like a retreat, but for myself.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I'm sharing it with everyone. That's my gift to all of you. I encourage you to find a way to do it. Hopefully you guys all have, you know, time off with work. We always kind of wait until we're sick or we're burnt out to like book a vacation. But why not just have a random ass day where you're just like you know what I'm gonna go to the Art Museum, I'm gonna do some reflective writing, I'm gonna do some meditation, I'm gonna go for a hike, whatever it is for you that lets you kind of take some time inward and slow down and really think about where you are currently and where you want to be. That's kind of really the only thing that I have planned. And then each quarter it's just gonna be those reflective questions, practices, and then maybe just doing something that I in particular enjoy and just basically telling everyone at work like, hey, you guys got things. You know, text me if something urgent comes up. Otherwise, you know, leave me be Same thing with the husband and kids. Y'all can survive 24 hours without me.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I do encourage you if you can't take a whole day slow down. I would add that if you don't do it for yourself, somebody else is gonna do it for you.
Speaker 1:Oh, so true.
Speaker 2:I can't tell you how many people who've been let go. Uh-huh Like I gave 120% to that company. I'm like well, that was your mistake.
Speaker 1:That's so true, oh my gosh. Yes.
Speaker 2:Don't think that's a secret. If you don't like it, you're probably not performing well, yeah, and you will end up on the layoff list. So don't let it happen to you. If you, know, you're not happy, the idea that the answer is not to put your nose down and work hard. No, it's to put your head up and say I deserve to be in a role that brings the best of me out, because that is gonna give me the best life that I want, and I'm gonna go find it.
Speaker 1:And I know it's gonna be scary, I know I'm gonna be around it.
Speaker 2:I know there's risk associated with it, but I'm gonna take that because to me it's pick your poison, being unhealthy and a miserable job. That's hard. So is finding, doing the work to find something better. That's also hard. Pick your heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pick your poison. That leads nicely into our next question, and I kind of alluded to it earlier as well. But this idea of our mindset when it comes to our career story and oftentimes we think it owns us versus us owning it I think a lot of what we're talking about today, the tools and the tips that you're giving to our listeners, will hopefully empower them to start to own their own story. Are there any other ways in which you help women to shape their story so that it serves their career and their lives better? Because I think this is another thing where, again, we're alluding to layoffs and firings. Those are pretty traumatic experiences. How can you start to help women who overcome some of those things so they can kind of take ownership of their career story?
Speaker 2:You know I've been doing this for so long, but I feel like I've almost seen everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I hate to say that because something crazy is going to happen this afternoon that I haven't seen, but we have come so far in the world of work in terms of what's acceptable Leaving the workforce coming back, having things that don't go well. If you have some things that in your career that you think, ugh, I muffled that, I muffed that, or I got laid off or I got let go, it's not as much that it happened to you as to how you tell the story. You own it. Let's say you were let go. Let's say you were in the wrong job and you were let go, or you made a mistake and you let go. The worst thing you can do is to tell the story and then blame somebody else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because when someone asks you I have seen the interview question asked before Tell me about a time when you dropped the ball, Tell me about a time when things didn't go well. It's not a question in that people are looking for perfection, Because if you answer that question with wow, things have always gone well for me, they're not a great hire. Sorry, Because that's not realistic. What they're, what instead they're looking for, is maturity, professional awareness, the ability to take responsibility and the ability to you know, own it and move on. What I learned from this was this Absolutely, that's so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got. Believe me, I have worked with. I actually have a really good friend right now who's going through something horrible and it's his fault, and it is when he is ready to get back to work. He's got. He really is going to have to work hard. In other words, he's going to have to. And I tell him, I say I think for you you're going to have to get back on your feet by having people who still know and love you hire you so you can get your story built, because getting fired, you know any of those sort of things are um, those are just normal now, yeah, but yeah, there are times when we do something really stupid and we get let go.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's really owning up to your mistakes and saying here's what I learned from it and here's how I'm better and here's how I work through it.
Speaker 2:Yes, there will still be people who don't want to hire you. Let's say you got fired three times. In fact, one time I was talking to this guy he'd have eight jobs in 10 years, Wow, and I said I can't help you. I said, because it's clearly a you problem, Because you know it's not that you did eight bad things, but you, you didn't learn clearly from any of those things.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we layoffs, yeah. At what point does it become a you problem? Because the cost is right there.
Speaker 2:And I said, the only best advice I can give you is go rebuild with someone who believes, who still believes in you, because your story is, I mean, so you want to. That's why, if you have a couple of bad jobs in a row or a couple of rules, say, okay, you know. Don't just bounce to another one and hope for the best. You have to step back and figure out are you, is your picker broken? Or you know, what do you need to do to make sure you are making better decisions? Or you know, honestly, are you in the wrong job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it takes some time and reflection and, like you said, and you keep emphasizing self-awareness, which is such a critical and important thing, I think in professional development and personal development, like you just can't.
Speaker 1:We need more of it, especially, I mean, within leadership, I would say for sure. But in particular, it really just made me think back to a recent episode we had with Maria Judis, who owns Hot Studios, which a part of her company had been bought by Facebook, but before that she basically got fired from a job. She was on her way. She shared this in the podcast. You have to go back and take a listen. Kaylee just shared the link to the episode in the chat, but she was on her way to basically talk about her company in a big conference event and on the way there got fired, got there, still did the talk and just with all honesty, got up and said I still believe in this company, I still believe in this product. However, I'm going to be transparent. I'm probably not the person to connect with because I just got let go, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And she was just very kind of open, honest and then just shared. You know, I don't remember exactly how she put it. We should go back. You guys should go back and listen to the episode, but the way that she shared it was with such grace and tact that it really impressed the room and it opened up new doors and opportunities for her just moments after getting let go. And so, sharing that vulnerability, even publicly, I was just so floored that she did that. I'm like that was a brave moment and I think those brave moments are what really pay off and I think it just takes some time and practice of sharing that, the stories and that vulnerability. But, as you said, julie, emphasizing and what I learned from this was, I mean, all it does is show that you're human, that you're human but you have the ability to learn and grow and to me, that establishes and builds trust and respect, which, you know, if it's the right kind of employer, they will definitely set you up.
Speaker 2:I think you're not everybody's cup of tea. You're not, yeah, and you don't have to be for everyone. Oh, it's too much. It's too much Okay.
Speaker 1:I've got one more question for you, julie, before we wrap up. But obviously our live listening audience has been very engaged. I'm not surprised, julie. All of this conversation always ends up being amazing when we have you with us. But my last question is, of the few takeaways that we've talked about today understanding career happiness, crafting a career narrative and building a powerful network Can you share which ones of these has resonated with you the most in your own personal professional journey?
Speaker 2:You know, like I said, I was in human resources for 16 years, out of college and so but I would tell you that I knew none of this stuff. I left human resources and I didn't know how to network. I didn't know what cover management was. I didn't know any of this stuff. So I was 38 when I left HR and I figured all this out. I figured out how to network in a way that felt authentic to me and it wasn't just going to rotary club or random meetings. I have to build my own powerful network based on what my goals are, and I for sure, at that point, at that point, I everything I'm saying right now was like I would have heard all that and been like huh, you know, I didn't know any of it.
Speaker 2:And so, wherever you are in your career journey, you are not. It's not too late to take a mulligan and start over to figure this out. There's a person on this call who was our client at one point and I knew her family growing up. Awesome, her brother was friends with I'm sorry, with my son. Our process resonated so much with her that she is in the process of learning how to be a coach for us. Oh, fantastic. In a way, that's nothing she ever would have thought of when she was working with us.
Speaker 1:And so, adrian hi, Adrian, she added herself I love it.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love it. Yes, but it's so. Don't let yourself be open for those surprises that come along. Absolutely. It's not a damn thing I talked to you about today that I would have been able to share with you when I was in my late thirties. Not a thing, not a thing. I grew sister networking. I didn't even know what career management was. It was that thread, it was that moment in human resources where it's like why do all these people, why do all these people hate their jobs?
Speaker 2:but they're still here? When you're in HR, unfortunately, you can't say to people. You know what. I think you should go Right. I was like why are you still here? Because this is clearly not about the color of the walls.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why is that okay with you? Uh-huh, Uh-huh In miserable at work. One week I had two conversations with two separate women who said to me I cry in the car on the way to work.
Speaker 1:Oh, that breaks my heart and I said why is that okay with you? Well, it's not. Yeah, apparently, it is Great because you're still here.
Speaker 2:You let yourself get to that point.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. And by the time you're crying in the car you are so far down the hole, it's just going to be a long time before you're self out. I agree. I agree, Julie. This has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much. I add one more thing. Yeah, please do.
Speaker 2:You talk for companies that have employee resource groups, women's groups. If you do webinars, please contact me. Yes, this is a topic I love and I can also I can focus it on how to do all this inside your company, so it's not really about changing jobs. So if you belong to professional associations, you know I love to speak, I love to do webinars, so please reach out to me or check out our website. I'm trying to get the word out, especially with people who've already heard me speak. If you think this would resonate with other people, you know, please let me know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, employee retention and satisfaction is such a big thing right now. The job market and industry is absolutely insane. Companies are working with limited resources and budgets for hiring and you know, people are already taxed and stressed and burnt out. The pandemic and everything else that followed after is not really helped either. So I do think, julie, the work that you're doing is so very important, not just to the individuals but the companies overall. So, yes, kaylee, will drop once again the into the chat, the ways in which you can connect with Julie and connect her with your company as well. I just want to say, yes, I mean I think I love that you picked networking as one of your favorites. I wouldn't be sitting here right now running and owning a company if it wasn't for networking. Well, you and I wouldn't be talking right now if it wasn't for the lovely Brad.
Speaker 2:Wise introducing us.
Speaker 1:So thanks, brad. If you ever take a listen to this episode, you know we hadn't talked in years, since the pandemic, and we were catching up, and he's like, oh my gosh, you have to meet Julie. And so yeah, nick, here we are, our event number two, and I hope we keep having conversations and chatting together. I think taking this collective experience that has been our lives and careers and putting it out into the world in ways in which can benefit other women who are kind of in the midst of their journey, it's such an awesome thing to do. It is absolutely what fills me with happiness and I feel like it's much the same for you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Of course, all right everyone. Thank you so much for listening. We are always so thrilled to have you all here with us. We hope that you learned something new today and we will all see you next week. Until then, please keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. We'll see you next week. Bye, everyone, bye.
