Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Career Acceleration for Women
In this episode of The Power Lounge, host Amy Vaughan interviews Natasha, CEO of Envisify Global Intelligence, about career acceleration for women. They discuss the power of mentorship, emphasizing empathy and impact, the value of diverse voices in decision-making, and cultural intelligence in inclusive workplaces. Natasha shares insights on achieving goals, selecting mentors, navigating challenges, and post-pandemic cultural shifts. Tune in for actionable advice on mentorship, sponsorship, and advancing your career journey.
Connect with Natasha:
Guest LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/natashapongonis/
Guest Instagram:** Instagram (@npongonis)**
Guest Website:** Natasha Pongonis - Culture & Consumer Insights Consultant**
Episode Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro
01:23 - DEI Talk with Natasha at Illuminate Conference
08:14 - Collective Strength and Goal Setting
12:58 - Honest Feedback from Mentors
19:41 - Building Relationships with Mentors and Sponsors
23:55 - Gender Bias in Leadership
28:50 - Crafting a Stellar Bio with AI
35:39 - Direct Mentorship with Alignment
40:20 - Admiring Proactive Mentees
44:46 - Unseen Cultural Gaps
48:39 - Crucial Mentorship for Challenges
58:22 - Diverse Perspectives in Mentorship
01:02:59 - Outro
Quote of the Episode:
"Your mentor becomes your sponsor, advocating for you in important conversations, unlocking opportunities.”- Natasha Pongonis
"Empower conversations with solutions, not just problems. Be the one who offers the way forward." - Natasha Pongonis
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly podcast. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am your host, and I'm so excited to have all of you here with us. If you want to learn more about Together Digital, you can join the movement at togetherindigitalcom, and today we are very lucky to have Natasha with us.
Speaker 1:Natasha is a very new and now dear friend. She is a true trailblazer and a three-time founder who currently is leading the charge as CEO at Invisify Global Intelligence. Her journey is nothing short of inspiring. She is masterminding behind a cutting-edge platform that is revolutionizing how organizations understand cultural intelligence and customer behavior. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, folks. She has four languages under her belt. With a global perspective that is second to none, natasha has been the driving force behind data-driven strategies for Fortune 500 companies and government agencies alike. Her expertise spans global trends, emerging tech and building high performance teams, making her a very sought after consultant for top brands worldwide.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to share that Natasha will also be a featured speaker. Like I said, as soon as we got into conversation, I'm like okay, we need to, we need to hang out more. She's going to be with us in two weeks less than two weeks at our upcoming Illuminate National Conference in Cincinnati on October 17th. We're excited to see many of you listeners there, where she'll be addressing a very critical topic of DEI and being under fire, where, together, we'll be discussing and exploring how data can empower us and move us forward rather than retreat from diversity, equity and inclusion efforts.
Speaker 1:And this is a very relevant subject matter, folks, as many of you in this space know and understand, and I think it's a very unique perspective that Natasha has to share. So I'm excited to have her on stage along with another friend of ours, lizette, who's doing some very important work with the UN in the same vein. So when Natasha is not just shaping the future of critical intelligence in tech or advocating for data-driven DEI strategies, you'll find her sharing her wisdom as a speaker and actively contributing to the business community throughout her many board memberships. So everyone, please welcome Natasha. Thank you, natasha, for being here to share your insights on mentorship and sponsorship and navigating the unique challenges that women that are capable and competent and amazing like you often face and feel like they maybe have to do alone.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have this conversation, mostly because this is such an important topic and oftentimes we don't really have the time to explore and really understand the impact the sponsorship and really means and how we can really help us. So you know, mentorship sponsorship has been incredible in my journey and I can talk for hours about the importance of mentorship and I think this platform is just perfect for that because you really have an audience. They have walked through a lot of the same challenges and they can share incredible stories. So I'm so excited about joining this audience today and being part of the conference in two weeks. The conversation is going to be incredible and so relevant in what we're facing women today and making sure that we are all sharing the experience and knowledge and empowering one another, because we have a lot to get done. So the next generation of women's leaders have a much easier path than what we did. But still, I think part of the challenge is how do we enjoy a journey?
Speaker 1:So there is no bad experiences, only learnings. Right. Exactly what did we learn from this? Because everyone goes through various ups and downs and struggles, and you've had a very impressive career. You're a three-time founder and now a CEO of Invisify Global Intelligence, as I mentioned earlier, and as you said you know, mentorship and sponsorship have played a critical role in your journey thus far, but I'd love for you to kind of walk our listeners through what that journey has looked like for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you know, looking back in my journey, especially in the United States, when I came to the US I was an exchange student. I came for a program at the Ohio State University and my professors they were fluent in Spanish because they were teaching actually in my home country, which is Argentina. So when I came to OSU I didn't feel the need to learn the language. I was fluent in French and I love the French language, so I had no interest in learning English at that time. So when I met my husband and we got engaged I was like, oh my God, this could be home and I'm going to have to learn the language. And I graduated. I graduated as an architect and I have to learn the language. And I graduated. I graduated as an architect and being an architect and working in a technical field it really allowed me to get immersed in the workforce, get immersed in the culture of my community and learn the language at the same time. But I'm so grateful and so thankful that actually companies decided to hire me, even though I couldn't really speak the language. But clearly my design and my ideas from an architectural standpoint was compelling enough to open that first door and I think from there, one I think it was asking for help would really help me along the way, just making sure that was letting them know what I didn't know and what were the areas they needed support and making sure that I was aligning myself with those individuals. They wanted to be part of the journey, that they wanted to help me and be successful.
Speaker 2:And I think part of that, looking back, is two takeaways. I think one was identifying perhaps individuals that could relate on my experience either, because they were like a first or second generation, perhaps immigrant United States, or they remember the moms or the grandparents and they felt some empathy. So that was one. And number two, again I can say asking, asking for help.
Speaker 2:I think we women oftentimes tend to be a little bit more shy about it and when you are put in some extreme situations you realize that when you actually speak out of the problem, many solutions might be presented to yourself If you didn't ask.
Speaker 2:Perhaps you have never seen some of those options in some of those solutions. But I think you know, looking back, and you know I'm very excited, very proud, that I'm a three time founder. But I think that is kind of like that, that drive of not seeing obstacles, obstacles and challenges as shoes that determine that I cannot pursue my dreams, but more so as a challenge in trying to figure out what is it that I need to do, what is the path that I can find, what are some of those allies that I can find in my community so I can really fulfill my dream. And I think one of my motto is like I want to live with no regret. My dream and I think one of my motto is like I want to live with no regret, and part of that is really focused on my professional journey that I don't want to live with regret.
Speaker 1:I love it. I agree wholeheartedly with you there. It's like you got just one life. It's like we got to make it count right and not taking that for granted and being intentional about where you're going and how you're getting there. And I love what you said about knowing what you don't know.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes we don't know where to start and asking for help because I think from a societal standpoint we're also conditioned not to.
Speaker 1:We have to be it all, we have to do it all and we have to do it all alone as women often and that's such a false narrative in my mind there's such strength and collective power.
Speaker 1:Like you said, it's like it's not one thing to just speak the problem. It's another thing to realize that you know you're not the only one struggling with that problem and that there's so many people that have thoughts and ideas and potential solutions for you or that you have for them. And it's like I think we discount the amount of experience and knowledge that we have to share between one another. And then I think it's hard for us to be, even though you know we tend to be vulnerable. We it's hard professionally, I think sometimes right to get vulnerable. And then I also love what you said about goal setting and kind of having your ideal sort of career in life in your mind and thinking about who do I need to help me get there. You know, so often when we're setting goals we think it just solely depends on us. But no, you need support of friends, of family. You need to speak those goals and not just into existence for the sake of manifestation.
Speaker 1:You need to let the world know, so that they can show up and support you in the ways that you need support Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think you know, talking about the mentorship and the sponsorship, I think they you know, mentors oftentimes see in you quality or skills or strength and even weakness that you don't see. And having a mentor who can be completely transparent and honest because a mentor is not a friend and sometimes we confuse that our friends are our mentors. Friends, they don't want to hurt your feelings. Friends, they want to make sure that you continue the friendship. A mentor is someone who's going to be completely honest because, mentor, what they want is to make sure that you are successful in your journey. So we have to really make sure that we understand the distinctions.
Speaker 2:Can a mentor become a friend? Sure he can, but I think as long you make sure that the feedback that you get in is intended to help you grow. So I think you know part of the benefit to having that mentor is oftentimes you might set your own goals. You might have your career path and your journey based on your own self-understanding of who you are and perhaps the capabilities, until someone else sees you far beyond of those capabilities, and now your goals and your journey can really grow exponentially. So that's one of the really, I think, beauty that I didn't understand at first of the benefits of a mentor until I kind of I'm very visual, so I need to map out what I wanted to accomplish, what I wanted to do in that year, and having those conversations with the mentor when they start asking you questions, right?
Speaker 2:Like why that goal? What is that going to take you in the long way? What is your not your 12-month plan, but what is your 5, your 10 years plan? Right? And when you start really seeing the long-term journey, you can start really defining what are the guide rails that you need to have in place in order to accomplish those objectives. So I think mentors for me in that case has been incredible, and having not only a mentor that you can check once in a while, but also having someone who is going to keep you accountable yes, and the person who is going to keep you accountable might not necessarily be your mentor, but might be someone who is actually also going through the same journey that you are. Yeah, you can keep each other accountable and making sure that you actually those are the goals that you have set in the guide rails have already been in place making sure that you are actually very intentional in the process.
Speaker 2:So when I have my meetings with my accountable body, we meet in a quarterly base. Love it, it's really, you know, it really helps me to just have a reset and evaluate time allocation, which is critical priorities, and I think often that we don't do as women is putting us first. Yep, we oftentimes put everyone else first. So when we have something in my case it's visual when I sit down and I'm like, okay, it's time to check out with my friend and how much I have accomplished in this past quarter. Did I actually did what I meant to do? And if not, it's a good reminder to again have that reset and really redefine time allocation.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah. I think having a plan and sticking to it, something that's recurring, is really, really smart, I think. For me, I like to look for mentors that are my disagreeable givers. I've talked about this book so many times now. I won't go into depth about all of it, so you guys can just look into it. It's Adam Grant's give and take, and it's really those folks who you know also speak with radical candor. Another great book Kim Scott. We've had her on the podcast in the past as well People who will tell you the things that you don't always want to hear, but you need to hear, like you were saying.
Speaker 1:They're not. They are your friends in the sense that they're giving you their time and they're generous with it and they're paying attention, but also they will see something that maybe you're not seeing, and they're not going to be afraid to tell you straight up what it is that you need to hear, because that's what you need for growth. You need somebody that's going to push you. So that's something I look for when it comes to a mentor. Natasha, what do you look for when you look for a mentor?
Speaker 2:You know and I think there are different mentors based on the journey that you're going through, right.
Speaker 2:So, I remember I had a great mentor when I launched my second company and I started in the fundraising route. And fundraising, especially for women, is extremely hard, very difficult, because when you look at the representation from a VC to angel investor, the majorities are male and white males. So I realized I needed to have a mentor that really already walked through the same journey that I had. So I reached out to this incredible lady who has worked in the hardest and highly male-dominated industry, which is in the oil industry. But she did it and she was extremely successful. But she was great for that phase during that time because I was going through the fundraising phase. And then when I launched my third company, it was a very different approach, a different, very technology focused. So I knew they needed to find somebody they can be a little bit more understanding from a technology standpoint, more so. So I think I have a collection of mentors.
Speaker 1:But it's definitely more aligned with, like, your goals right, based on your objectives and your goals. You want somebody with that specific you know, industry expertise, insight, insider knowledge to help you kind of crack that instead of trying to figure it out for yourself. You know, like why, why?
Speaker 2:so it's very interesting. I think one of the mentors that I first reached out when I launched my company about 15 years ago, 13 years ago. There is a company, there's online a score I don't know if you know score right. So it's an organization. I didn't know. It was my first time launching a company, I didn't know who I can ask for help, who I can ask. And someone mentioned about SCORE. I'm going to SCORE, you can find a mentor that way. So I was like I'm going to check it out. So I did and just happened to be the lady. You kind of fill out what your requirements are. I didn't really understand much about finance. I didn't understand P&Ls, I didn't understand projections.
Speaker 2:So I needed someone who can help me. I understood I had the vision for my company. I knew what I wanted to do. I was very clear on the services. What I wasn't very clear was how can I create a financial planning for my company that was beyond the six months and the 12 months, but I'm kind of having the five years plan. So that's how I reached out to SCORE. I found this incredible woman who happened to be an investor very well-known in the community. I was even shocked that she was actually donating her time at SCORE. So I reached out, we connected and we clicked right away. So she accepted to be my mentor.
Speaker 2:But then, as we started to have our relationship at our meeting, she realized that actually her mentee at the time would be a better mentor to me than she was.
Speaker 2:So she put the connection, yeah, with um, her mentee at the time, who became my mentor, you know, a long time ago.
Speaker 2:And uh, and he still is, and we develop a friendship, but a friendship that is very clearly defined on how we how can we support one another in the journey that we have.
Speaker 2:He's also a serial entrepreneur and now he's asked me many times to actually mentor some of his female employees, but now I'm sitting on the board of one of his companies. So it's interesting how that relationship where he was my mentor but now I'm a mentor of his employee but not only that, I now have a seat at the table in one of his companies and I think part of that is making sure that when you have those relationships with a mentor is being able that you actually are allocating the time and you are very intentional in building those relationships, because even with mentors that I had in the past that were very specific in one time of my company, I still reach out. We still have those relationships. Right, christmas time comes and you send a card or you send a text or a phone call. You want to check in because you never know when you might actually need that advice again.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's such a good point, that's such a fantastic point. Anybody that is looking for a mentor or is currently a mentee. I think that's a big mistake some of us make as mentees is that we forget that it's a two-way street. We walk away from the table to say how can I help you? What is it that you're working on that you know you need help with, and I mean it can be something as simple as spreading the word about an event they're working on, another big project that they're doing. Maybe they need help and resources. You know you have something to offer as well and that helps build that trust and relationship, to show that it's a mutual two-way street, right, and then, like you said, following up, showing gratitude.
Speaker 1:I always try to send something in the way of a thank you to those who are kind of my consistent mentors throughout the year, just to let them know like how much their time means to me, and it's such a small act, but it really just helps, like you said, solidify that relationship, and the last thing you want is to be in a crisis situation and then have to be like knocking on people's doors, like begging for somebody's ear and I say this for women in general too, about networking, we tend to wait and hold off until we have a major life event, a career pivot that needs to happen, or we get laid off or fired and then we're like, oh, now I need to network. And then all of a sudden you're banging on people's doors or calling people up for coffee that you haven't talked to in five years and it's kind of hard and it feels icky because you're like I need something and that's why I'm showing up. But if you work on finding ways to just make a regular habit or cadence of building those relationships and connections one, the rewarding, because we need connection as human beings. Two, you've got things to offer to people. You know when you're showing up to these opportunities, whether it's a mentor or a networking situation.
Speaker 1:And three, it just makes it feel a lot less daunting when you are in basically a big old pile of poop and things are going to hell and you can be calling on your people saying hey, I need your help and they're like right there for you because you've always shown up and been right there for them. It makes it all so much easier. One thing I would like to do for those who are listening and live listeners, please don't forget. You can jump into the chat and ask any questions that you have for Natasha while we're having this conversation, but I would love for you to help people who are maybe earlier on in their career understand what's the difference between a mentor and a sponsor, because I don't know that everybody knows that there's a difference and why it's important to have both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. I think so. So I said, and understanding, right, that you have that mentor, and we just talked about how important it is to nurture those relationships, because it's the mentor who eventually will become your sponsor, right? So I think we talk about setting goals. You have a mentor who can help you figure out what are the objectives that we want to do, but it's actually the mentor or the sponsor, who is going to help you to make sure that those goals and those objectives actually become reality. So we're talking about a career path. Right, you can.
Speaker 2:You are just entering the career, you just got your first job with Corporate America and then you have your mentor, who's someone who perhaps has been in the field or in the company five, ten plus years, and it's someone who can help you figure out.
Speaker 2:What does that math look like, what is the career path that you want to pursue, what are some of the perhaps recommendations that you want to do, or what is the next job that you want to apply. But it's actually that mentor who could potentially be and most likely will be, when those decisions are taking place and the decision makers are at the table and you want to make sure that those are your mentors or your sponsors, because those are the ones that are going to be the first one bringing your name up and highlighting the accomplishment that you have done, the goals that you have been able to accomplish. So you wanted to make sure that, again, how important it is to build those relationships, because your mentor will become your sponsor. It's that person who is at the table when the conversations where you are not there, and is there to highlight and really bring your name up so you can have all those opportunities.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, you are 100% right. I need to send you this article. I just read an article from the Harvard Business Review After having read another one that just made my like stomach turn. I was like. God I was telling women to show up as in order to just, in general, to show up as leaders that we had to like. This is what attractive leadership looks like. This is what, unattractively, I'm like okay, so that language already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's put that to the door.
Speaker 1:It was like not neurodivergent friendly, it was not introvert friendly, it was not gender friendly, it was just like all these things. Well then they have this other article that they published recently that talks about how women actually move up in the world, and this is, to me, why it's such an important topic mentorship and sponsorship. Sponsorship, like you said, sponsors are the people who will speak your name in the rooms that you are not in. They have a seat at the table, they are of influence within a certain space or industry company that you are interested in, and they are either backing you by again validating your experience, your knowledge, who you are, or they're putting money on the table for you, like literally sponsoring with money at that time, saying I'll pay for you to attend this thing because I think you need to be in this room. Those are sponsors, you know. So they are taking a different kind of action, maybe, than a mentor. That's like more of a coaching space, and this article was saying basically, basically, women, when we the studies was showing.
Speaker 1:Um, like I said, I'll send this to you because I know you'll love it um you know they had like a man and a woman um, talking at a presentation and they flipped it to where the man was leading the presentation and then the woman led the presentation and the woman was actually knocked more for being overly aggressive and dominating when she was leading, versus the man who was assertive and a leader. Blah, blah, blah. We know this, we hear this all the time. Right, that stupid double standard. But they also found that, you know, face time with leaders was also not serving women well and they said, like some 40% of women did actually actually did not form strong bonds with leadership when they had more time with them.
Speaker 1:What they found is that how we move ahead is through what they call third party validation. It's when other people refer us. It is when a friend of mine, a connect, a mutual connection of ours, says hey, amy, you need to talk to Natasha because she's amazing, she runs this company and does blah, blah, blah, blah. It gives me all your background, tells me how awesome you are, and as soon as we get on a call, it's like I already have it in my mind that you are validated in all these things and so, boom, you're in you know, and this for women is like that's, that's really the way that they're finding that we have to do this, so sponsorship is huge.
Speaker 2:It is huge. It is huge and yeah, and I think that that also brings another point very important. I think we women have to be ready for those moments, because you never know when that sponsor is going to be speaking on your behalf. And it might happen that you get a text on a Friday at 5 pm or Thursday at 9 pm saying hey, I have a meeting tomorrow morning or I'm having coffee with the CEO of company XYZ. Send me your bio, Send me your resume.
Speaker 1:And you don't have it with.
Speaker 2:And then two, three days later, when you send that information, it's too late.
Speaker 2:You missed that opportunity. So I think it's very important that you know we and these are like little steps right it doesn't require much time, but that your LinkedIn profile is up to date, that your picture is up to date, that you have a professional picture up to date, but also that you have a bio that's really ready to be sent out and that goes online to what are some of your goals and your objective, right? What is it that you want to accomplish? What is a career path? And making sure that you are actually highlighting the strength that you have aligned with those objectives. But I cannot tell you the number of times that I have sent an email or text saying send me your resume right now, I have this opportunity, it's perfect for you, and then I don't hear back until days later. And and so we need to also making sure that you know how we set ourselves as a priority and what is it that we need to do to make sure that we are ready?
Speaker 2:because time is critical and I learned the hard way, the hard way. So I'm not saying this because I read it somewhere. I'm sharing the story because it happens to me not once, but twice, and at that point I was like, okay, clearly it's my, it's my problem, no one else's problem is me. I need to fix this. So, and doesn't mean that you might have many bios I have so many bios depending on am I looking for a consulting job?
Speaker 2:Is it a board job? Is it a potential client? Is it a mentorship? And I have all my bios ready. I have different resumes ready and I think also, I talked to so many great, amazing women.
Speaker 2:They have been working in corporate for their whole life and now they've realized that they're ready to take the next step. They want to start their own journey. They want to start their own journey. They want to start their own company. Maybe they want to be a consultant, and I love just reviewing resumes or bios.
Speaker 2:So oftentimes we are like really settling ourselves so short. Oh, absolutely Don't do that because you want it. No one is going to help you. If you're not speaking on your behalf. It starts with you. But also resumes are great if you're looking for a job, but if you are looking for a speaking engagement, if you're looking for a board seat nonprofit or for profit or consultancy, or being a fractional CMO or CEO do a bio. Bio works much better than a two pages resume, because people really wanted to understand who you are to the core, what are your passions, what are your strengths, what you have done, and you can really highlight that in a one pager that's concise. So if there is any takeaway from this podcast today, just make sure that you have a bio ready to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make it easy for people to champion you. Don't make it more work, like they're doing you a tremendous favor by basically putting you in front of some other really important people. So it's like don't hesitate, don't second guess, just be like yep, got it. If you need to, here's a fun trick ladies Go into chat, gbt or whatever your favorite age-adaptive AI is.
Speaker 1:Put your existing bio in there and then prompt it to write it like a confident white dude. Say like, give me like the most hyped you know bio and put it in the tone of this and it'll give you something. And you'll be like oh, I would never think to say these things about myself, but it does sound pretty stellar. And of course you're going to go and edit it and refine it, but don't delete the bad assness of it. Like, keep all that in there.
Speaker 1:But yeah, and then again you've got more people to look around and ask to say, hey, can you review my bio and help me? Or how do I plus this up? You know, but still like, don't, don't sit on it. I think sometimes we get so in our heads about the opportunity that you're right that we miss an important piece of timing, and you do talk about that a lot, that timing is an important part of mentorship and sponsorship. Is there any other examples that like you'd want to share or that, or like maybe how women can identify the right moment to maybe seek or leverage any of these relationships mentorship, sponsorship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think one of the feedback they got I can't remember it was like maybe eight years ago or something I was in a really great situation. I was invited to be part of a roundtable conversation at the White House and talking about women's honor, small business honor, latinas honor, and it was great. And actually that opportunity again came through a sponsor who was at the right time at the right conversation and when the White House asked for do we know, do you know somebody that would you recommend to have this conversation, my name came out. So it was great.
Speaker 2:And after we had the meeting, it was, you know, obviously all over the news and the media and I was getting phone calls from CNN and NBC, from all these different outlets to have this conversation. And part of one of the feedback that I got from my sponsor is don't be reactive, be proactive. And I was, and it took me a little bit to process that information. And by her saying be proactive, not reactive, what she was trying to say is you knew that you were doing this white round table at the white house yeah instead of having right cnn or all these different news outlets reaching out to you, you should have already have a press release out with your name in advance.
Speaker 2:Make sure that you're promoting this with all your network and and being reactive was after the fact. So I think sometimes you know we it's hard to perhaps have the full understanding and the impact of some situations. But maybe taking the five minute where you can really ask, you know, do an assessment, evaluate the opportunity that you are being given and how you can truly maximize those opportunities, so that feedback from my mentor was so important because she was right, I was being reactive and I wasn't being proactive, and and I will take that forever.
Speaker 2:So every time there is an event or any type of opportunity, I'm always asking myself am I being reactive, am I being proactive?
Speaker 1:I love that so much. Well, and I would say too, I think that just sets you up to be the kind of person people want to keep recommending. Right, when you show up and you make the most of an opportunity, and they get to see the impact of that. Anybody that's sitting on this call or listening to the podcast right now that is a mentor. There is nothing better than watching a mentee take an opportunity that you have put in their lap and just knock it out of the park, like that is why you mentor, you know, and then all that does is think, make you think okay, yeah, the next time I see something like this come up, this is the person I'm recommending, you know. So it's not just a service to yourself and the opportunity, but it's really doing a service to the person that puts you up in that position to begin with.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think you know, leverage this platform. I think that Together Digital and in the amount of women that we have in the group, sometimes you know, reach out if you don't know where to start, if you don't have a mentor, you don't know how, because it's your first time. It's really hard to navigate things for the first time. So I think that's very important again, to reach out to somebody you know, in the website LinkedIn, they're always featuring women in the interview.
Speaker 1:You know they have already done it. What in the interview?
Speaker 2:you know they have already done it. What tips do you have? What tips do you have for folks who don't maybe have a mentor yet, that are looking for one? Like where do where do they start? Yeah, so I think reaching out number one right. So I have attended so many conference and then I'm walking around like, oh my god, this woman really spoke to my soul and I want to connect and you know, and it can be intimidating because you might be, you know, senior vice president of the largest company in the United States.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:But I will send out a message on LinkedIn and say hey, I was in.
Speaker 2:I was in the audience. You really spoke to the core of what I'm trying to go through. Do you have five minutes and it doesn't have to be in person can be virtual, and I will say that I had more yeses than noes by doing that and the amount of shoes, generosity from women who have achieved that level and they wanted to give back. So even if it's five minutes, 10 minutes, don't abuse it. So don't excuse your hour long call, but even with a 10 minute meeting that you come prepare with the questions that you want to ask, what is it that you want to get take away from that conversation? It's going to be so important and sometimes that first introduction call, if it's 10 minutes, can really lead to a friendship or could lead to a mentorship and eventually a sponsorship. So I think it's just you know, we have so many tools in our hands that we can use.
Speaker 2:Linkedin is one of those TikTok. There are so many thought leaders in TikTok sharing their own experiences. You can reach out as well. Leaders in TikTok sharing their own experiences, you can reach out as well. And so I think it's just making sure again that you understand what is it that you want?
Speaker 1:to accomplish what?
Speaker 2:you wanted to get out of the relationship and just put yourself out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I I often say follow your envy. It shows you what you really truly desire and what you want. And so sometimes I'll be, you're right, I know I'll go to an event or a conference or I'll be following somebody on a specific platform and I get a little bit of a girl crush and I'm thinking my gosh, she's just doing amazing things and I don't know how she's doing it. And rather than throw shade or shame myself and think I could never be that like, why not just, like you said, just reach out, give her that credit and say I think you're amazing, I love what you're doing and I love what you said there. I you spoke to the core of something that I am also trying to do. So show alignment and then be specific and say I think that you could be a potential fantastic mentor for me, if that's something that you're open to like. Be direct in what you're asking for each and every time you meet. I think that's also really important because, like you said, you can't use a mentor session like a therapy session, because mentorship is not therapy. Right? You need to have some clear objectives and you need to come a little bit prepared with something you know specific to sort of tackle. So this is something I just want to share, if you don't mind, a framework that a boss and a sponsor mentor taught me once that I have literally used ever since and then I've kind of put it out there loosely because I feel like everybody has like their own way of sort of kind of coming at all of this and I don't think mentorship is meant to be like structured specifically a certain way.
Speaker 1:But I often encourage people to at least just show up with what he called the three C's, which is a comment, which is your general status, so easy to remember. Comment of your general status how are things since the last time we met? A celebration it's a second C, great way to slow down and be like I did something really awesome since we last met. And then the third one is the concern, like a genuine, honest, straightforward concern problem that you were facing and that's usually where you spend most of the time.
Speaker 1:Usually my like comments, like maybe the most five minutes if more, like to my celebration, because again, we don't really often know how to brag on ourselves and celebrate maybe a minute right. And then the concern, and that's really where you spend the bulk of your time. But those three C's, even if I am like so bogged down and then I kind of miss on the calendar, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have a standing meeting with a mentor, I can get on a call in five minutes, I can at least come up with my three C's in that framework and like go into that and that really helps us guide the conversation and sort of keep me on the rails.
Speaker 2:You know I love it. It's so easy to remember. I'm going to definitely keep that in mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I needed that because I'm a verbal processor as well. So it's like I have to be careful, and I did do that often with my mentors in my early days, where and God, love them they would just sit and listen and listen. Love them they would just sit and listen and listen.
Speaker 2:No, that's. That's such a great advice. Yeah, I think being, you know, preparing is so important that you should show up, to show up, but, and that that goes for everything in life not just the relationship with mentors.
Speaker 1:So yeah, being prepared is key, and one of the thing I wanted to ask you about is this balance of being a mentor and a mentee, because I'll tell you, I am surprised not only by how many women don't currently have a mentor and then so they're not like in that mentee space, but how, how many women don't even seek to be mentors. I'm like, wait, this should kind of just be like you, should I? My opinion, I don't even care how many years of experience you have or how old you are. You are. I don't know if you agree with me or not. I don't think I'm ever going to not need a mentor. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely A hundred percent. I mean, we always need a mentor, always, and I think it could be intimidating, right? So I think the first time that someone asked me if I can be a mentor, I was like, oh my God no, I'm not prepared.
Speaker 2:Like how can I be a mentor, like no, but it's really not a requirement. There is no description of what the mentor should look like. It's making sure that you are thoughtful, that you care, that you're generous, that you can actually have empathy for the person that you are in front, and making sure that you care, that you're generous, that you can actually have empathy for the person that you are in front, and making sure that you actually really care about making an impact. So it doesn't have to be that you have reached and you're now in the C-suite executive, because, again, you're going to need we all need mentors with all different knowledges and experience and background, and every single one brings something very unique to the table. So I think you know it's just putting yourself out there, yeah, learning to say more yes than no. And I think the beauty of the mentorship also oftentimes, when I have the title of being a mentor, I'm learning so much as well. Oh, 100%. So it's a two-way learning.
Speaker 2:It's no shoes that you are in the mentor role and you telling and dictating? No, it's a two ways learning and it's a beautiful experience, a beautiful relationship.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 1:I definitely look up to the women that I mentor because they have, like, you know, I've like a 20 years on them.
Speaker 1:But then I look at them and I'm thinking where I was when I was their age and I'm just like you are so much more put together and you're already leaning into mentorship and you're following up on things and I'm just like, yeah, you're just getting light years ahead and you know, and being pro, like you said, proactive and not reactive, and that's not to shame anybody, but I think it is just one of those things where it's like to shame anybody, but I think it is just one of those things where it's like, you know, sitting back and watching them and seeing the ways that they approach and also see the world and the workforce.
Speaker 1:I think is also important to have that perspective because now that I'm on like the weird other side of you know the workforce and the generational divides, you know it's it's weird. It's weird. You know I'm I'm not. It's as much as my brain doesn't want to believe it. I'm not a recent graduate, I didn't start working five years ago, and so it's like I'm on the other end of the spectrum. So the workforce and the next generation of folks coming in. I really do want to hear and see how they see the world and how they see work and how they see themselves in it, and I think you know there's.
Speaker 2:And I think you bring like a really good point on that, maybe not necessarily in the mentorship or sponsorship conversation, but I think definitely on having the seat at the table conversation. Yeah, Because oftentimes and I see that in some of the boards there's a non-profit, a for-profit, where we're looking for years of experience, which is great because you want to have those conversations at the table, which is great because you want to have those conversations at the table. But you also want to have those conversations and have people at the table who is your customer that you're trying to reach, the demographic that you're trying to reach, and making sure that you also have those voices on the table. So I sit on the board of a nonprofit and we had our annual meeting and the retreat and we were talking and planning about the next year and I was very new and I was like, okay, I'm looking around and I'm like this is great.
Speaker 2:Some of the board members- have been here for 20 years, 18 years, some have less than that, but it was very striking that there was no one on the room. That is a community that we're trying to serve, so how can we create a plan?
Speaker 2:How can we create what are the goals, if we don't have that voice on the table, the individual who are really being impacted by or the individuals who are going through that program? So I think sometimes we need to really take a step back, take a look, understand what is the impact that we wanted to do and who are the voices they need to have. We need to have at that table. So the impact that we wanted to do and who are the voices they need to have we need to have at that table.
Speaker 2:So the goals that we create in the products, the solution that we create in, are relevant and are a true representation of those needs or problems that we're trying to solve, and it makes sense when you talk about it, but sometimes, when you look again on the framework and the rules, and what you have it doesn't always is there as clear the systems don't align that's such a great point.
Speaker 1:I mean sort of on that note obviously with your business and what you do. You talk a lot about in cultural intelligence and that's a big part of the work that you do. How do you think that intersects with mentorship, especially with for women with diverse backgrounds, with mentorship especially for women with diverse backgrounds? How would you speak to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, culture is just such a great topic of conversation. It's been around for so many forever, right Since humans were alive. I think now that we're starting to take a little bit more serious conversation and understanding the impact of culture, especially in the workforce, yeah, so I think you know you mentioned about the age gap, right, we see in this generation, especially in the workforce, right, the Gen Z entering the workforce and we still have the boomer generation in the workforce. So we really have like four or five generations right now in one space and each of them brings in a very different experience. So we're starting to see such a diverse population in the workforce and it's not only sometimes, when we're talking about culture, people think, oh, it's ethnicity, and it's not, it's lifestyle, it's education, it's age, it's gender, so it's so, so rich and diverse. So we really have to learn how we go deeper in those cultural nuances. So I'm sure you have seen the iceberg of culture. Right, we only see and we focus on what we see above the water, but it's really everything that goes below the water that is very critical.
Speaker 2:So, from a cultural standpoint, you know one of the interesting, I think, perhaps experiences that I had right after the pandemic, right, we started to going back into the workforce perhaps, you know, five days a week, maybe two, maybe three and companies trying to be more intentional about what is a pipeline of talent. What does it look like? And really, from a cultural standpoint, right, starting to see there is that gap in communication and gap in needs, perhaps the needs that were relevant when you're applying for a job 20 years ago, 30 years ago. It's not the same as today, so it needs to be, they need to adapt. But I think what I have seen that works from a cultural standpoint, but also from an age and ethnicity, is really creating a system from an onboarding process from an entry level all the way to making sure that you're creating a healthy and sustainable pipeline for the C-suite role, and oftentimes that comes with something as simple as creating and having a strategic mentorship program within the company.
Speaker 2:It could be a body system where you have somebody who actually will be from the day that you walk in and help you to navigate what is the first day of work. And what I heard sometimes is that in culture, training is very critical and that in culture training means somebody who can relate to the challenges that you're going through and that could come from gender, could be from ethnicity, could be from life experience, education, right, maybe she went to the same sorority that you did. So that in-culture piece is so important to making sure the companies not only are focusing on the attraction of candidate but the retention of the candidate. The retention is great. Sadly, what I often hear in some of my work is women and people of color. They kind of feel stuck right in that entry level, mid-management level and part of that is you know, when I have my interview is they don't see someone like them in the C. My interview is they don't see someone like them Exactly In the C-suite.
Speaker 2:They don't see someone like them and we need to make sure that we break that status quo, that we don't feel like, OK, there is no one like me. I guess this is as far I can go. No, you definitely can go farther, and part of that is having those honest conversations Right. Definitely can go farther, and part of that is having those honest conversations right. So find that mentor, find that sponsor in your company, find someone who you can have an honest conversation. But also, don't bring problem, bring solutions to those conversations.
Speaker 2:So if you see an opportunity, if you see a problem within the company and your own company, making sure that you also come prepared with solutions. And how can you create a strategic program. Perhaps they can not only help you but help the company as a large. So I think you know, having some of those more strict ERG programs are great, but sometimes a bit limited in funding. They can only do so much. But that is when it comes, perhaps when you might know some organizations that are supporting additional level, like Together Digital, where they can actually be an arm of those ERG groups, and how you can be more strategic and how can be providing additional support to what the company already has, so that the impact is greater.
Speaker 1:That's so much good information in there, natasha, just to talk about and highlight so much good stuff. Yeah, I mean, not feeling seen is such an issue for so many people and I don't know why it's so hard for folks at the top to not see and understand. But, of course, it's hard to see the waters that you swim in, it's hard to understand the problems of the world that you don't have to walk in and experience day in and day out, and so that is why I think it is really, really important to find mentors, you know, even if it means going outside the walls of your company, to find people that you know, maybe do sort of align or, you know, experience similar problems that you might have experienced but have managed to kind of break through on the glass ceiling, whatever that is, whatever barriers they have faced. Because, at the end of the day, while it's important to have, you know, mentors and allies that don't look like you, it's going to be hard for them to sometimes understand the deeper, more subversive things that you might be facing right as you're kind of moving through your career, and it's just so hard for us to be and see the things that we can't see. You know, it's hard to model that because we're not going to get there in the same way, we aren't afforded the same privileges, and so it's one of those things that it's like once you see this, it's really hard to unsee it, but for some people I think there's just a lot of guilt behind that, because I mean, I don't care who you are, we all walk around with a certain amount of privilege. But I think as soon as you can see it and acknowledge it and start to work to actually leverage it for the right reasons, that's what's empowering, like don't sit in the shame, take it and do something with it. And mentorship is a really great way, but also sponsorship, I think. When you're in that position of privilege, I think that's where sponsorship versus mentorship makes a lot of sense. That's where it's like me having a lot of great male allies and champions in my past.
Speaker 1:I had a ton of great guys who were like oh yeah, that Amy Vaughn, you need to talk to her. I, no joke, got a job that doubled my salary once because I talked to, like the guy that wanted to hire me spoke to one of my college teachers who was also a mentor of mine. They worked together at Leo Burnett years before that, another guy in strategy who wanted to hire me spoke highly of me, and then another associate creative director who had interviewed me like three years prior. All three knew me, all three spoke highly of me and this guy had no doubt he's like you're the person I want. I just need you to go through the formalities. But here's the role, here's the client and here's the salary. And it was no joke double my salary. That's what I mean by this whole third party validation. I didn't have to go through all the hoops and this guy just found me on LinkedIn one day and I'm like opening up and I'm like is this a joke? Is this spam? Like trying to look him up to see if he's a real, and you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things where you know you mentioned ERGs.
Speaker 1:I love the intent of ERGs.
Speaker 1:I think where they rob me the wrong way is that we often ask people who are in those marginalized groups to create the safe spaces and to do the work of bringing content with limited funding and resources, and you're asking people who are already being overutilized and underpaid, typically for their roles, to now do more free work to make everybody else that looks like them feel comfortable.
Speaker 1:And that's what drives me nuts and that's why we have groups like Together Digital, because I think we can be that safe space and extension of your company and culture. We are a partner. We're the kind of organization that is going to help your women feel more seen, heard, valued and assured that there is a path forward and that, even though there might not be people at the top that look like them, there are women that are moving through the industry that look like them and that there is a way forward. And you know, I was a member first, as many of our listeners already know, and I would just walk in after one of our events and I just always seem so lit up. People were like were you at a Together Digital event today?
Speaker 1:I was like, yes, because I felt like as a working mom, balancing my ambition and motherhood and lack of sleep and everything else that goes into the messiness of motherhood, especially when they're very little and you're an agency creative. It was so good to at least start my day with a group of women that I could talk about some things that I would not dare speak about in the rooms at my office or my agency, and so it helped me show up better and more whole at work, you know, and I just think sometimes people don't realize what a gift that can be to give to their team and their employees.
Speaker 1:So I do think, looking for external support for your teams and I'm not just saying it has to be Together Digital, but there's other organizations, amazing organizations out there. Give them those opportunities to be in the spaces where they're not the minority in the room for a minute and let them feel that sense of belonging and let those tables be turned for a minute.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's actually a great way also to find a mentor right Volunteer in some of those organizations and if there is something that you wanted to explore and perhaps you don't know how, join a committee and in the committee you're going to really learn so much about it by individuals. They have, you know, the subject matter expert in that industry, but also that's how you start building your own community and funding those mentors and sponsors. I think you know allocating that time.
Speaker 1:Join organizations show up to those meetings.
Speaker 2:Go to those events. It's going to be so important in your journey.
Speaker 1:It is. It is and you bring up a good point there too as well Like even your peers can serve as mentors, because even if somebody is just like a half step ahead of you, you know they're like living it, or they just lived it. So like, how fantastic is it to be like right there with somebody that truly remembers what it was like to be in your shoes. All right, this question I'm not sure if you don't have like an exact exact example.
Speaker 1:I know that, like data, we're both data nerds and a lot of what you do is centered around data, but I was just wondering if there was ever any instance where a data-driven insight helped either you or your mentee make a critical career decision, because sometimes, when you're kind of looking at things, it's like it's hard to know what to pinpoint and what to move on, where and when.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, I think you know, just perhaps something that we can all relate and you know, part of the data that we do is really understanding consumer behavior, is understanding emotions, understanding pain point, and it could be either in the workforce or it can be from products that we use and consume every day. And it was very interesting in one of the work a few years ago that we started in the CPG industry, in the beauty industry in particular, and we were working with a hair care brand and they were really trying to figure out you know how much can we find influencers. We're coming up with this product, we love it, it's great and oftentimes brands you know they're like we know it all we know our audience.
Speaker 2:We know where customer is and we're like, okay, great but let's just tell the data, tell us the story let's just tell the data Tell us the story.
Speaker 1:Let's just see.
Speaker 2:And really being able to understand from the consumer perspective and perhaps not from the brand perspective, but it was really interesting just to see the evolution of some of the data points that we're collecting with this brand that was creating this hair care product, where their demographics were females, latinas, black women and they wanted to bring some color and more vibrant and styles. And it was a great product, great brand. Love the campaign.
Speaker 2:But then when we realized, when we were doing the analysis because it's like the analysis you do pre-campaign, during and pause- and so you can really have a holistic understanding as we discover that the products that they were creating was wasn't really meant for the hairstyle and the hair type okay of the target audience, uh, and and the result were really the result everyone expected. And part of that again it becomes because they were targeting right, a different demographic where the style perhaps, was curly and not straight.
Speaker 2:It wasn't thin, it was sort of thicker. But that is how some of the data point, but not only that we actually discover the actually men were loving the product and they were loving to have fun with the product and that was a demographic that it wasn't even part of the strategy. So I think that was interesting One to bring awareness about if you're trying to reach the particular demographic you need to make sure that you also do your research ahead of time and understanding what are some of the needs, what are some of the challenges, how is the products or service or solution that you're trying to bring?
Speaker 2:Is that really going to make the impact that you expect? And making sure that when you have this conversation, perhaps this could have been avoided if, when the product was being created, they actually have those diverse voices on the table. When someone who have brought the insight and said well, you know what actually Latinas women, they actually have more curl and more body in their hair, Maybe the composition of the product should be a little bit different. Maybe a dark blue tone might not show as much. It is a light blue tone, so little nuances can really make a different impact. And it comes back again to having those diverse voices, diverse data in the process to make sure that you actually are delivering. I think we all care about the ROI and the ROI comes by doing the right research from the get go and making sure that you have all voices, all perspectives in the process.
Speaker 1:And you know I love this and I would almost want to like, take it and like, move it into the sense of like for mentorship and sponsorship, into the way of like, goal creation and setting right. You should make it measurable and be tracking it. So, if you have a specific goal, put some numbers to it and, as you're looking at it, like you said, let the data tell the story, and sometimes that can reveal opportunities or blind spots or things that you haven't been thinking about before, or it's like somebody from the outside can look and see. And I think this is also, too, why I think, from a peer standpoint, for peer mentors, I really do try hard to have a very diverse number of voices within my peer mentor group, because these women come from different places, different spaces, different experiences in the world, different races. You know different backgrounds, socioeconomically, all these things, and what's great is that, as I'm vetting things through them, they're adding that perspective. So I'm not going into the world blind, right? Because they're seeing the world, you know, in a different way. And adding that perspective is always so valuable and, like I said, I like my disagreeable givers. So if they're like, eh, I wouldn't do it that way, you know they'll tell me and it's so great, it's so great.
Speaker 1:Okay, we have got one minute left and we're going to go through our power round questions. Our power round is kind of like a lightning round. I'm excited about this one really just because question number one. I love this question. What is the best piece of career advice that you have been given?
Speaker 2:And who so many. But I think, like looking back again and I mentioned that early is to not be reactive but to be proactive that completely changed my outlook and how.
Speaker 1:I start my day. Yeah, don't wait for everything to come at you. Get ahead of it. I love that. In one word, what is the biggest obstacle for women when it comes to mentorship or sponsorship?
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's just perhaps having that lack of understanding of what you want the journey to be. Sometimes it's like you're looking at a mentor to help you figure that out, but it starts with you. I love it. You need to have a vision of who you want to be and then have a mentor who can help you accomplish that vision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's gold right there, Natasha, because I think that's the difference between a mentor and a coach as well. Right, a coach is going to coach that out of you, they're going to work that out of you, you're going to go through a process with them, and they've been trained and skilled to do that, whereas, like you're right a mentor, you've got to have that vision, you've got to have that goal and you've got to be able to have them to help you go for it. All right, last one, finish this sentence the key to effective sponsorship is the key to what? Effective sponsorship or mentorship?
Speaker 2:Sponsorship. It's your network. It's having a rich, large network.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much, natasha. This was really really fantastic Again, so many amazing, brilliant, helpful pieces of insight and information.
Speaker 2:And anyone feel free to reach out. You know I always open my network. It's your network. So if I can make an introduction, even though I might not know that person in person, but always happy to make an intro when should folks find you? Super easy. My name, natasha Pongonis, and all my social media tag is at Natasha Pongonis or in Pongonis, so you can find me on Instagram or in LinkedIn Awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, folks, I encourage you to do it. She put it out for out there. You know, time is of the essence. Be proactive, not reactive. Look, I got, like all your sayings down here, this beautiful list of all these great takeaways. Thank you so much again, natasha. We appreciate it. All right, friends, that is all we have for you today. I hope you enjoyed. We are going to be on a two week break. I'm going to miss you all Next week. I am actually like taking off to the mountains for a little bit of R&R before we go into our national conference week. So, yeah, we've got a few busy weeks ahead, so we're going to pause on recording for two weeks. I encourage you to go back and take a listen to some of our amazing past episodes that we have. We have three seasons now of just amazing content like this to help you grow in everything and your career, personally, professionally, and all things digital in life. Until then, we will see you soon. Everyone asking keep giving and keep growing. Take care bye. Produced by heartcast media.
