Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Fail Forward: A Content Marketing Victory
In this episode titled "Fail Forward: A Content Marketing Victory," host Amy Vaughan interviews Melissa Lou, Senior Director of Content Strategy at Salesforce. They explore the journey of creating award-winning content, focusing on Melissa’s work with Salesforce’s Salesblazer project.
Melissa shares how setbacks and failures can lead to significant victories in content marketing and discusses her keynote speech at Content Marketing World. Her transition from traditional journalism to tech content strategy highlights the changing landscape of the industry.
This episode offers valuable lessons on resilience, persistence, and community-building, emphasizing the importance of learning from failure. Join us as we uncover how to leverage experiences to foster growth and innovation in your marketing strategies!
Connect with Melissa:
Melissa Leu
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissaleu/
Episode Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
03:21 - The Story Behind "Persistence Beats Resistance"
07:29 - Evolving Careers and the Art of Storytelling
13:50 - Turning Rejection into Writing Mastery
17:05 - The Question: "Why Should Anyone Care?"
25:25 - Solving Problems with a Customer-Centric Approach
26:56 - Archetypes, Branding, and Embracing Vulnerability
36:00 - Successfully Building Online Relationships
39:19 - "Don't Get Furious, Get Curious"
44:17 - Community as a Key to Business Success
50:44 - Moving Past AI Hype: Focus on Practicality
55:27 - The Role of Exercise in Winter Well-Being
58:49 - LinkedIn as a Vital Portfolio Platform
01:02:37 - Outro
Quote of the Episode:
"It's a mindset shift in a world of constant comparison and 'InstaPerfect' lives. As Nelson Mandela said, 'I never lose; I either win or learn.'" -Melissa Leu
"I can pick myself up, dust off, and ask, 'What did I learn?' This persistence helps me overcome any resistance. - Melissa Leu
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power Lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigitalcom All right, so all of us have been there. You go to conferences and events and there are just moments that sort of stick with you well, after the sessions are over and for me they were plentiful at the Content Marketing World conference this last year.
Speaker 1:But watching Melissa Liu come in and share, I had to paint the picture. She's at Content Marketing World on the feature stage which, if any of you have been to this, it is a 3000 person event. There are massive screens everywhere, there's pump up music playing for everyone and she steps up onto the stage to accept the project of the year award for sales blazer. And she didn't just share a polished success story. Instead, she pulled back the curtain on the messy and very honest journey of creating award-winning content. We all know that's the process, right, it's not always perfect, but her words of persistence beats resistance really hit home with me and I felt like it was something that our community and the women everywhere that are listening to this truly need to know and hear time and time again.
Speaker 1:We need to be reminded she is currently the Senior Director of Content Strategy at Salesforce. We are so excited to have her here on the Power Lounge to share her incredible background that has spanned the Los Angeles Times, abc and NPR, and she's here to share a very unfarnished truth about turning content into in marketing, setbacks into victories. So if you've ever felt stuck, or if you're wondering if you're the only one struggling on the project or at work or in general, this conversation is for you. I am so, so excited to have you with us here today, melissa, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, Amy. That was such a nice intro, oh you're welcome.
Speaker 1:It's absolutely my pleasure. I love to kind of give everybody a chance to feel a little bit of love and get cozy here and just settle in for good conversations and honest conversations, because that's what we're really all about. And when you and I talked after your session, I so appreciate you being open because I know it was probably a lot for you to jump on stage and do all that and then be accosted and be like be on my podcast right after. But you were so accepting and I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it was a little flattering. So that was my first keynote and so I had no idea what to expect. So to hear that someone enjoyed it one person in the crowd at least- enjoyed it that felt really nice, absolutely, and you've had quite a journey.
Speaker 1:I'd love for some of our listeners to hear a little bit more about you and where you've come from. So from journalism into leading content strategy at Salesforce, what kind of drew you to make that transition from more traditional media and some of those places I mentioned before into kind of more digital content?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was a journalist for about 10 years a decade.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I went to school for journalism. That was my passion. I love to tell stories and, kind of to me, journalism is this community service. You know it's a public service that you're really kind of doing good in the world and like uncovering and telling the stories that need to be told. Unfortunately, you know, the business of journalism is quite difficult, absolutely, and so after a decade in it, you know you try all the different roles and you kind of take a look at your life and you're like, okay, what is the life that I want to lead? Is this kind of the balance that I'm looking for? Uh, I had reached a point of, you know, I had gotten to leadership roles in newsrooms and felt like, oh, I accomplished a lot, but is is, is this what I imagined?
Speaker 2:and now that I've gotten here, is this what I actually wanted? And then realized, you know, I think it's time for a change. So then I I luckily um, you know have a couple friends who were like, hey, I've been working at this company for five years and you know, I really love this company, has great values, and it's really all about employees and growing their employees. Like, why don't you just look and see if there's any jobs that you might be interested?
Speaker 2:in um, so I applied and, yeah, somehow got it, I don't know how because you are talented interviews and rejections along the way. But yeah, that's how I ended up at salesforce and content marketing yeah, that's amazing, did you?
Speaker 1:so? It just did you kind of like set it in your resume without connections? Did you know people there Like what did that look like that whole process?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so obviously when you're making a career pivot you kind of have to reframe your resume to whatever that job description looks like. So for me, when I was applying to different types of roles, I basically went through my resume and looked at the job description and just synced it up and I was like, how do I paraphrase this so that I'm using similar language and similar words and just putting it on my resume with the accomplishments that I have? So that was one thing I tried to do to kind of get through the algorithms of like getting your resume surfaced. But I would say, yeah, unfortunately, you know, the interview processes that I got through the furthest, with tech companies at least, came from referrals. So I had a couple friends that I reached out to on LinkedIn or texted and was like, hey, I'm looking for a new role, looks like you work at this company. Would you be interested in referring?
Speaker 2:me this company. Would you be interested in referring me? Obviously not words like that, specifically, but and then also setting up informational interviews because there might be roles that you think the job looks interesting and then kind of talk to someone about the company culture and yeah, you know what it's like to work there and you're like maybe that's not for me exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe not worth my time. I ask because this current job market is extremely flooded, especially with women who've kind of had a fallout from things within, like the economy, the influence of AI on companies and just in general, like you know, the way things have gone the last year or so. But I do think, and we have a lot of not just job seekers within the community but like pivoters, right, women, especially in digital right, because it's always evolving, and so I've known so many people who did not start in, like how many people in this industry, especially our community, which our median age is like 35, 10 to 15 years of experience, like there was no such thing as like a digital marketing course in, you know, at school, and so you have to sort of it's not. I wouldn't call it necessarily even pivoting, I would say it's evolving, it's really just the mindset.
Speaker 1:And I love how you talked about looking at what you've done contextually and saying how do I make it relevant to where I want to go? Because experience is still experience. It's all in how you're telling that story and I just think it's so important for our job seekers and pivoters, evolvers, all of us, to hear that and be reminded of those things kind of, given the times we're in and the moment you were describing there, melissa, is so how I felt when I got to like my title and the salary I thought would always make me like super satisfied and I'm like, yay, this is it, I've made it.
Speaker 1:And it's that feeling I call it the feeling you have when you basically climb somebody else's mountain. You're like, wait, now that I'm here, where's that good feeling, where's that sense of success and accomplishment, like I'm accomplished, but I don't feel gratified. I don't feel like this is the thing I was always meant to be doing. And then you're like why did I just spend so many years climbing that mountain? That wasn't even mine to begin with, but that's how you learn right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like blinded by your goal kind of like going straight down that path, everything out of my way for me to get there, and then you finally get there. You're like wait, this wasn't what I imagined.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. Yeah you goal blindness. Oh, that's so true. I like that term too. All right, so during your presentation I remember looking back in my notes and writing really big persistence beats resistance and that really stuck with me and some of the other folks around me, so it wasn't just me that enjoyed your talk but I'm curious what I wanted.
Speaker 1:I. One of the first things I wanted to ask you was like, okay, you could have just walked up and been like I did, we did this, and then we did this and then we and so just like, sold the story is something kind of easy breezy and instead you decided to share the struggle alongside the success. What inspired you to do that? You decided to share the struggle alongside the success.
Speaker 2:What inspired you to do that? I didn't know. The other way was an option. I love it. I was like, how do I tell a compelling story? And I'm like, okay, what's a hero's journey I could share? And, like you, you know, it's never interesting to hear someone start at the top and then keep staying at the top, and that certainly wasn't reality in our project anyways. So yeah, it's funny because I worked with a speaking coach to go through and kind of like talk through what I was going to say and he was actually like where the talk started from, where what you saw on stage was literally changing up until the like hours before, not nerve wracking, right yeah, not nerve-wracking, right yeah.
Speaker 2:And the speaking coach basically was like, when he looked at my first version of it, he was like why are you just like cutting yourself down the entire time? And so, um, what you saw was like a more, uh, confident version of actually what I started with. So that's interesting that you're like, oh, I really appreciated your vulnerability because I'm just like, oh, don't want to see the mess before that.
Speaker 1:You know Z-Draft won, you know, maybe now I kind of do, but I would have to say kudos to your speaking coach because I will also say I've done a lot of speaking myself. I've gone through some like speaker coaching and things and now I feel like I can see it when somebody has been coached and they can feel a little overcoached. Tell your guy he did a great job outside of like bringing the right thing into your talk, which is that confidence. Really love, how. Like yeah, I just love that you didn't sound overcoached to me at all. Like I feel like sometimes I can just be listening or watching someone on stage and I'm like gosh, they've definitely been coached. You know what I mean. You did not come across that way at all. It was still very genuine and I think you know. Kudos to him and to you for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, he's also a part-time therapist, so half the coaching sound like a therapy? Yeah well, he's also a part-time therapist, so half the coaching is on like a therapy, or he?
Speaker 1:used to be a therapist. That's amazing. Yeah, I get this guy's number.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:And then I think you know and you said this before and I think it came from you know again, bringing those strengths from one career path into the next Storytelling. You know you were a journalist. You're like what's the hook? What um storytelling? You know you were a journalist. You're like what's the hook, what's interesting about everything was perfect and nothing went wrong, or, sideways, like there's nothing, there's nothing newsworthy about that, right, yeah, um. So I'm kind of curious. You know, with your background and experience, kind of starting um in journalism instead of going straight, we'll get to sales blazer, I promise folks. I'm curious. What. What shaped your approach to storytelling?
Speaker 2:honestly, it's just, it's just practice, right. Like you start off as a cub reporter very limited experience, and you're constantly pitching stories to different editors, constantly saying this deserves to be in like this part of the newspaper, this deserves like this kind of treatment online and over time you do that enough. You get rejected enough. You kind of pick up okay, why did I get rejected on this one? What notes did they have on this one? You do that enough. And then once your stuff gets picked up, you're like okay, why did they pick this one up? You look at your peers and you're like, why did their stuff get picked up? And you just start to pick up these little patterns and bring them into your process. And once you kind of get more practice then you eventually hopefully are able to kind of bring your own sort of flair to it. But definitely, I think, for me. I started off at a place where you know English is actually my second language. I went to kindergarten. I like did not know any English.
Speaker 2:All the kids knew the alphabet and I was like what the heck is happening, and then um and then yeah, I don't know how I ended up in writing but I never thought I was a good writer and then you just do it long enough and you fail long enough and eventually you get to a point where you're like, actually like I've learned a few things, and it kind of takes that perspective for you to look back to finally be like, oh, I landed in a place that all those little failures, all those little rejections, all the things that were bumps along the way, the challenges, actually helped me hone my skills to where I am today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. See, I think you were always meant to give that talk. It sounds like from early on, you were just okay to like get out there and try and fail and get up and try again. You know, and it is a mindset shift in a society where we're constantly comparing ourselves to others, looking at, you know, insta-perfect lives and not seeing behind the curtain. It reminded me and I want to share the quote because we talked about it before we went live was the Nelson Mandela quote.
Speaker 1:I think you just live it. It's like he says I never lose, I only win, or I learn something, and that's like really it. It's like, okay, it's not that I have to lose. You know, just because it didn't go the way I wanted doesn't mean that it was a total loss. Now, unless you're like a brain surgeon, then maybe that might be an issue, but we aren't doing brain surgery here. So it's like, okay, I can pick myself up, dust myself off and say what did I learn? And then you become better over time. Again, that persistence is going to be any resistance thrown your way. I love that. Our live listeners are already writing down. You're already getting quoted again.
Speaker 2:It's on her desk now. I can't take credit for it because I stole it from someone else.
Speaker 1:I don't know, maybe you stole it from someone else. You're bringing it back around. You're bringing it back around. I love it All right. So let's talk about a little bit of how did your experience in traditional media outlets like the LA Times, abc and NPR influence your approach to creative content at Salesforce, because I think sometimes we forget ourselves and that, like the outside perspective or fresh perspective from different areas or different walks of life actually do add to the equation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think through news you're constantly thinking about what do people care about? What do they find interesting? Why is this interesting, and am I covering it in a way that's different from what's already been covered before?
Speaker 2:So I remember, like when I was early on in my career, I would pitch a story and they'd be like did you look that up in the past? Have we written about it before? Have other people written about it? How are you moving this story forward and how are you kind of bringing a different angle, whether through your writing or through your reporting or through the different sources that you're bringing into?
Speaker 1:the story and it's funny to hear it because it reminds me of a strategist that I used to work with. I don't even know exactly what his initial background was, but he became like the head of strategy at our agency over time and that was his favorite thing to ask everybody was why should anybody care about this, or why would anybody care about this? And it was interesting because every time he asked it it actually ruffled some people's feathers. It's like because they took it personally, like because it's a brand and I do work on it and everybody should care about it because I care about it. It's like no, that's a really great question.
Speaker 1:We are bombarded by content on a daily basis. Like how, how can you make people pay attention and care? That's an important thing, no matter what kind of you know content you're putting out into the end of the world as well. It also kind of shortly remind briefly reminds me of another talk. I went to a conference that is now no longer called Brandemonium and he talked about how, like, how much are you contributing to the pollution of the mind and the world of content by just putting out? I was like, dang dude, you're going for the jugular, but I get what you're saying, like I totally, if it's not something that is going to stop people in their tracks and make them care and pay attention like we're just adding to the fray you know, yeah, of this constantly building content, and now we've got AI to help us with it.
Speaker 1:Oh good, god, it just getting. That's a whole nother conversation now.
Speaker 2:I'm curious how did you answer that question? Because I don't know how I would answer that question. I said guilty.
Speaker 1:I said guilty because I know that, like in my past self, you know, junior copywriter Amy thought you know that my brands and the things that I were working on were the most you know, prevalent and important things in the world and you kind of have to right to to really lean in, to want to solve the problem with your creativity. So, yeah, no, I was like yeah, guilty, but it definitely made me think, moving forward, okay, I have to be more intentional about what I'm pumping out into the world and more thoughtful, you know, and really more helpful, you know, instead of just putting out garbage for the sake of talking to myself.
Speaker 1:I had another creative director that had another very semi-offensive term that I won't say, even though I usually say a lot on this podcast. But I won't say, um yeah, he just was like that's yeah, it's like yeah, it just it's so hard not to say it, but it's one of those things where it's more about brands pleasing themselves.
Speaker 2:Basically, you know and like the way that people like to please themselves.
Speaker 1:He's like, oh, that's brand and I was like dude. But you know, I understand what he's saying. It's like, you know, when you kind of forget your audience, you forget yourself and you're really kind of, you know, putting out a bunch of junk. So, yeah, no, I, I love that lens and I honestly think, as marketers, you know, we, we have a duty and a responsibility to our customers and the people that we're trying to help with. Whatever product or service we're providing, to make sure that it's thoughtful and intentional and truly right and helpful. But yeah, yeah, anyways, it could be like a whole nother episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like I always approach it almost through, like the opposite side, where I'm like nobody wants to hear what I have to say.
Speaker 1:I don't know what this says about me.
Speaker 2:I'm like nobody cares about what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Like, why would?
Speaker 2:they care about this. So it's almost like with every project. It's a little bit of proving myself and saying like hey, let me make it so beautiful, so amazing that it like can't be ignored.
Speaker 1:No, I love that. That's great. I think that's where, like, coming from a place of humility is not necessarily a bad thing, right Knowing that you've got something to prove, versus, like you know, crashing in and being like, yes, I deserve your attention.
Speaker 2:It's that chip on my shoulder.
Speaker 1:I know right you didn't have that advertising kid chip on your shoulder.
Speaker 2:No, unfortunately, when you come from journalism there's a lot of like. You get a media feedback on the internet.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh right, you can't be precious. That was another thing I loved from another boss of mine be passionate but not precious, not precious. And I'm like you are so right. That saves me a lot of sleepless nights and makes all of the feedback that you get you know a little bit easier to take. All right, let's get into the Sales Blazer project, and I would love for you to share a little bit about what the initial vision was and how did it evolve from the first iteration and how did it evolve from the first iteration?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, man, take me back. So we launched Sales Laser almost two years ago like a year and a half ago at this point and the intention was how can we create the largest, most successful sales community to help professionals out there learn new skills, connect with each other and grow their career? That was essentially like, in a nutshell, our goal Easy peasy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, easy peasy, you know.
Speaker 2:Our CEO basically challenged us and he's like hey, do this and do this better than everyone else and do it now, and so, so that's how it started, and and yeah, sorry, no, you're fine.
Speaker 1:How did it evolve? So where did you guys kind of come across your first hiccup, or kind of? I'm trying to like dig into, like the picture that you painted for your talk too?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, even before Sales Blazer started, kind of that quintessential idea or that vision was something that we had been trying to achieve for years right. Yeah, and so a previous iteration of Sales Blazer was this project called Think Outside the Quota and essentially we were going to be the next Marvel franchise for salespeople. You know we were saying like everybody was going to love this thing.
Speaker 2:We're going to have movie after movie after movie and, yeah, it didn't work out that way, but you know, we got some great speakers along the way. We worked with Tony Hawk, damon John and we thought this thing was just amazing. Yeah, expensive, very expensive and very. Our goal was like okay, prestige, that'll bring people in right.
Speaker 2:People who other people respect and are excited to learn from um. And, yeah, like that didn't necessarily bring in the people that we were, the amount of people that we were expecting for, the amount that we put in right, the effort, the resources, all of that. And so, um, you know, when our ceo kind of pitched this vision, we're like, hey, we're doing this, this kind of exists and like don't you think this kind of fits the bill, and he's like no, no, not even close. Well, we tried um, and so that's kind of how sales blazer was born is through that failure of learning. Oh, we really need to get back to our roots, understand what we're good at, what, what people actually want from us, what's unique about us and how we can serve and solve their problems specific to them, that we could actually solve their problems well versus what we hope to solve their problems with.
Speaker 2:You know.
Speaker 1:Right, this is such a common marketing like I don't want to say faux pas, but just like a common pitfall. I guess maybe is more the word right.
Speaker 1:And now that does, when it happens, when we make the product, the service or the company, that makes it the hero. And then, in this sense, you guys literally tried to make you're all the hero. We are Marvel and it's like, well, you know what the people that are trying to close deals day in and day out, in the midst of everyday life that's. They know that that's not like, that's not realistic for them. That's not actually coming in to solve the problem, it's fly. It sounds like you're going to fly in, do the thing and then fly out and you're not like a consistent, trusted partner and ally. That's not community either, is what I would say.
Speaker 1:But it is so hard, right, you don't. You don't want to ever question those that are so far above you. You're like that's outside my pay grade. But I mean I would have to say that I it's probably insurmountable the amount of time and money that a lot of companies that I've even worked for have spent. You know, as an agency creative director, you know sort of chasing down those more idealized, you know visions of what something could be versus what it should be, because we forget the customer is the hero and that we're trying to solve problems for them, and you just can't always fit a square peg in a round hole. So if you're not constantly asking throughout the process, how are we making this better for the customer? How are we solving the problems that maybe we can't even see that they're having, then what's the point? What's the point?
Speaker 2:I think we think outside the quota. It was a little bit about like how do we build a fandom? And the community will center around this fandom for this franchise, right, but it's like how many people out there really like are you going to watch a digital marketing tv series, essentially, and like become such a fan over like 10 episodes?
Speaker 2:you know, like and is that fandom gonna translate into true community where you're helping and solving each other, you know? So I think that was kind of some of the thinking. Maybe kind of turned it on its head when we moved into sales blazer.
Speaker 1:Right. Yeah, it also makes me think about right. We talk about like the hero's journey I'm thinking in terms of storytelling and then like the different archetypes.
Speaker 1:It's funny how sometimes it's like you can just put yourself as a brand into the wrong space, right Into the wrong character, and then trying to play a role that maybe others aren't seeing or just the fact that, like yeah, I go to, I go to disney plus or wherever I go to watch and stream entertainment for the sake of entertainment, and it's like you've kind of forgot the desired outcome for the idea or the ideal, like where you want to be, and I I do truly think again as being, you know, somebody who's constantly working to build and grow and and really maintain community.
Speaker 1:For me it requires vulnerability, you know. So I think there's nothing to say that you guys couldn't ever get to that like marvel status, but like the way the characters in marvel got to where they are was you saw peter parker, you know lose uncle bed. You know. You saw Iron man have his fraught relationship with his dad. I mean, they all have, you know, vulnerabilities in their story that have been shared and shown. And it's like if you're not kind of building that trust and relationship, like you're not going to get to that hero status either. Sorry if you're not a Marvel nerd or nerdy enough to know anything that I'm talking about right now, but hey, I mean, I think that's true of entertainment but I'm wondering like is that true of like business?
Speaker 2:You know, like do people want to build fandoms around business? I mean, I would say for Salesforce they've done a pretty successful job with our Trailblazer community. But I think the reason why that was successful was because it focused on the community, putting the community first. And I think with this series in particular, it was like let's focus on the building, the franchise and the IP first versus let's focus on building the community first.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% and so that's kind of where we switched and transitioned. When we moved into Sales, blazer is like, okay, the community comes first, what do they actually care about? What do they actually want from us?
Speaker 1:How can we?
Speaker 2:listen to that and kind of build from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% agree. Listening is huge in that respect, and then knowing how to respond accordingly and just get your house in order, because a lot of times I think people think that they're just like, yeah, it's like build it and they will come. No, not exactly. You got to make sure that you're listening and responding to show that you're in alignment with what they're willing to walk in the door for. It's a lot to get people's attention, it's a lot to keep people engaged in a part of a community. But I would say you know, salesforce is a brand. I mean, I don't know anybody that doesn't know.
Speaker 1:You know in this industry what Salesforce and who Salesforce is and you guys have an amazing product, so like that is such a great place to start and we think you know, turning it around, I'm kind of curious, like what? Was there like a kind of pivotal or specific point in which you guys are like okay, like this idea is done, we need to kind of move into, like shifting our focus and our attention? Was there any kind of like specific point or did it just slowly kind of evolve through conversations?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, it kind of came down to like I think, as many decisions sometimes come from top down, right, they see a need for the business and they're like, hey, solve this problem, right. What you're currently doing isn't solving the problem. And so that's kind of where it came through yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's where, too, sometimes we get a little backwards. It's like you know, hi, I have a business need, so I'm going to go impose that business need on my customers to like somehow make up and manufacture a need that they don't really have. Instead of constantly looking at your customers and saying there's a need that they have, let's grow our business by meeting that need leadership.
Speaker 2:They're talking to customers all the time on these calls. They're hearing from them and saying, like they're saying, you're in the perfect position to offer this to us.
Speaker 1:You've been in sales for 20 plus years.
Speaker 2:Why aren't you giving this to us?
Speaker 1:Give it to us, oh my gosh, come on, we're asking for it, that's amazing, that's a great position to be in, absolutely when people are asking for it and looking for it because, again, I think something like community. I mean, I'm hoping that over the next few years especially. I feel like there's just been more conversation about community as of late, especially at the start of the year, because people need it. You know, more than ever. You know we feel more isolated than ever whenever, whatever we're doing, work in life, and I think you know, once you understand the power community holds or the ways in which it can propel you forward, and then all of us at the same time forward, then you're like oh, I did it. People say this about together digital so many times over and over. This is the thing that I didn't know, that I needed. I don't know if your Salesforce people probably feel that way or sales blazer people feel that way, but I can only imagine because I've worked a minute in sales and it's just so hard.
Speaker 2:You know it's really tough, right.
Speaker 1:Rejection after rejection, you talk about resilience and persistence, like there's a lot to be said for that, and so to have community and know that you're not alone in that endeavor and struggle, but then you can also have people to celebrate and that will celebrate with you your wins, because, also, sales can be highly competitive.
Speaker 1:I really, really love this idea. I'm so glad that you guys went off and did this, so I'm kind of curious once you decided, okay, hey, the customers are asking for this. What were some of the things that you guys put into practice or into play within Sales Blazer that had a lot to do with your customer feedback?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would say like the biggest components of this program are content, community and product right and a lot of our customers were coming back and saying, hey, why is it so hard to figure out and get my questions answered? Is there one place for me as a salesperson to come through? So we had that for admins and developers, right like trailblazers, all dedicated towards admins and developers of Salesforce. But the end users, a lot of the end users, are in sales. Yeah, and we didn't necessarily have that same community for the salesperson, gotcha, and so it really centered from that idea. How do we bring it all together? We created a central hub where we could bring the best of Salesforce into one place. We integrated Sales Blazer into the product.
Speaker 2:We were like hey, look at these resources that are available to you. And then we built a community, online and in person, where folks could come together not only talk about how to solve their problems within Salesforce, but also it was really about professional growth, right, how could we all grow together and share the knowledge, get to know each other and be each other's kind of partners? As we go through this journey and probably the part of this program that keeps me going Is when I meet sales blazers in real life or over Slack and they're like Thank you so much for putting this program together. Like I met so many people, I've, you know, expanded my network or I found a new job, so it's been incredible to kind of see not only the macro picture of the numbers coming in, but also, on the person to person level, you could see the impact happening in real life.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it. Yeah, that does feel good, right, those fringe benefits of community are completely just priceless. They're absolutely priceless and it's like cool to know that. You know, by building and creating and facilitating community, there's like an abundance now of like opportunities and positive things happening for people that otherwise, without the community, would just not have ever come to fruition. I don't think we forget that we need each other sometimes more than we do.
Speaker 1:You know I love that and I agree with you kind of going from that online to offline and seeing those relationships. You know I love that and I agree with you kind of going from that online off online to offline and seeing in those relationships you know, and meeting people. It is. It's such a cool feeling.
Speaker 2:I love it, yeah, it almost feels like a class reunion sometimes at their events because a lot of these folks meet for the first time? Yeah, at these events, and but they've been like chatting online for a while oh yeah, so it's, it's. It's pretty cool to see those reunions uh-huh, it's.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting too in this time, in this era of remote and hybrid, where people seem to think that it's like oh, I can't make professional or adult grown-up friends, you know, through channels like these or communities. And I'm like guys, like we've got people who meet and fall in love online and get married. Like do you not pay attention to the online dating world? Like I can't think of any bigger, like more potential long-term commitment than that. So I'm like why couldn't you form these bonds and relationships and I believe I mean it sounds like they're happening all the time with the Sales Blazer crew and then definitely here within our community as well. So I love, love, love it. All right, let's go back to a little bit of talking about mindset and a framework that you've talked about and shared, that how you look at setbacks as opportunities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dive into that question a little bit more, like what are you, what do you hope to learn?
Speaker 1:Right. So I think that the keys of this question is you know you have the best of intentions, you're doing the work, you think the way you should, and then some, let's say, somebody comes in and says this is not what I wanted, this is not what I expected, or you get told no by somebody that is integral to making the thing happen. Like, if you can think of an example, maybe maybe it's more for like give us an example. Question of like how you've gotten a setback kind of thrown in your face and how you've been able to turn it into an opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it was the word framework that kind of threw me off.
Speaker 1:I don't know if there's We'll devolve what you're sharing into, maybe, a framework.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if there's an official framework. You know, it's like you encounter a setback and I'm like what are the steps that you do? You just like you think about the, you take a step back, you look at the vision. Are we all still trying to get to that vision? Okay, so then what do we learn from this setback and how can we take that forward with us and constantly continue to experiment and push forward to get to that vision? I think for me, with Sales Blazer, it was, you know, learning after learning after learning, right, and I think that phrase of, as I've been in tech, the longer I'm in tech, I'm like, oh yeah, like fail fast because, then you really do like learn very, very quickly and you're not spending so much of your time on a initiative, that or a project that won't necessarily get you to your ultimate vision.
Speaker 2:And so for me it's like making sure you have that clear idea of where you're trying to get to and dusting yourself off whenever, whenever something doesn't necessarily go your way, because it is an opportunity to learn. Yeah, it's an opportunity to take that forward with you and kind of make whatever you're doing a little bit stronger. So I guess that that's the framework. See, I knew I was going to answer this and we'll have it.
Speaker 1:And I feel like I'm seeing a little bit of that. That journalists come out and you again too. Right, and I say this often. So it's like an official Amy quote of don't get furious, get curious. You're looking at it and you're going. Well, what is happening here? What's really happening here? Why have we become misaligned? What needs to be done? Or how can we make this to where? Now we take this negative and work it into a more positive, and so it's like almost like that who, what, where, when, why, how sort of approach? And you get curious and you ask more questions versus just getting angry, throwing your hands up and saying this is the way it was supposed to go, this is the way it's always going to go, and I'm not going to bend or flex.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I mean part of it is also I'm like very stubborn and. I'm like also single-minded towards like accomplishing what I want to accomplish, and I think that's also just part of my natural drive. But I think, uh, how to make it executable? For, like it, it's just like, yeah, you just have to, you just have to keep trying.
Speaker 2:I think, like, for example, with think outside the quota, when we think we created the best thing ever and someone tells you no, that that's terrible, throw it out. You just spent like a year working on it, you know. But as much as, like you mourn the loss of the efforts that you put in and what you thought you accomplished, you know that those learnings help create Sales Blazer, which ultimately led us to you know project of the year.
Speaker 2:And like quarter of a million community members. It's like that. It's like the scale of sales. Laser was nothing we could have even imagined.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so great.
Speaker 2:Think outside the quota, you know. So hopefully something's always better around the corner and you take what you take what you learn.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's so great and super, super inspiring. Cause I think you're right, it is hard when you spend, you know, a year plus on something and it all kind of goes to the ground. But you're right, like from those ashes comes something better, you know, and I think always having that mindset of okay, yeah, well, that was a good first draft of a year that I just spent on on this first draft, but like, hey, that means the next one's going to be all the better. And I love that you're able to like, quantify and qualify and see the results of all that hard work, because it was all still the work, right, Like failing is a part of the process, folks.
Speaker 1:We have to remember it's not all about that perfection every time, because you're not going to end up with an optimal product or service by the end of that right, it's going to just kind of be subpar or okay, and clearly the time and energy that you've put into it and the learnings that you've taken have been a big part of that success and without that failure there would have been no learning. So love it. When it comes to community and creating content, the word authenticity gets thrown around quite a bit. I'm kind of curious. You know how you have tried to work towards doing that, especially while scaling, because obviously you guys have grown quite a bit as a community and the amount of content you're doing is probably grown along with it. Yeah, what are some things that you're kind of putting into place to make sure that it stays true to you know, salesforce and the vision and and the vision and for the community too, right, so they really truly feel that sense of connection?
Speaker 2:I think it's really just putting your community at the front right To maintain that authenticity, because for us it's like if our goal is to really help sales professionals, then we need to give them a platform. We need to give them the resources, like we need to be giving more than we're taking. Yes, and so, yeah, like, if you look at our content, the vast majority of our content includes someone quoted from our community. Majority of our content includes someone quoted from our community.
Speaker 2:if you go into the our slack, you'll see like we're constantly engaging, answering questions, making sure that you know the dialogue keeps going um, but a lot of it is also community driven right we have these community group leaders who are like, yeah, I'm gonna every going to, every quarter or every month, I'm going to throw my own sales blazer a bet, and that's really awesome to see that progression, right yeah. So yeah, it just kind of goes back to how do you, kind of goes back to how do you? It's like we could be as I guess our, our authentic goal is we want to help them, and so the best way to achieve that is putting them and at the front of that and helping and then giving them.
Speaker 1:I've've said it so many times before too, being someone who, like my whole bit, my whole business, is a community right, and I'm constantly saying without you, there is no me. You know, and when it comes to community, the people within the community, they are the product, you know, and so it can either be really good or really bad, and it's you know, so it's one of those things that I think like authenticity and creating the right kinds of content that is reflective of you know, of the people that you're trying to help and support. All right, I want to remind our live listening audience that you all have the chance to jump in and ask questions just through the chat. So just open up your chat window and drop questions and, if you have them, I've got one or two here left for you before we go into the power round. So I'm curious what surprised you the most about the elements of Sales Blazer that resonated the most with your audience? Was there anything that kind of?
Speaker 2:fell into that facet. You know, I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I am surprised constantly when, honestly, like when the community just wants to talk about a product. Yeah, Because obviously I come from the perspective of like, oh, just making making how the product functions better in their organization, and it's been inspiring to see people connect around that totally on their own. We may have created the working space, but they're the ones directing the connections and the conversations, and so that's really cool to see. Yeah, that's probably the best part.
Speaker 1:I love it. It is so good to hear when people are authentic. I can say this I know it's Friday Authentically advocate for your business because, again, like their words, their testimonials, that's talk about total authenticity and, you know, believability and and building that loyalty and all of that, a trust, all these things that you know brands are constantly trying to work towards. Community is such a great way to get there, but you, again, you can't make it about you, right? It's like this weird backwards thinking. Actually, you're giving me ideas. Also, friends, those of you that are listening, total, like slight segue, content marketing, world for 2025. They're speaking like applications are open.
Speaker 1:So, melissa, I hope you're gonna go apply, because we I think you should be on that stage again, and then all of our listeners like I think you should be on that stage again, and then all of our listeners like people need to be hearing from you too.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to encourage you all to check it out and apply and I'm going to do the same because I'm not just going to tell everybody else to do it, I'm also going to do it and actually, as we're talking, I'm getting ideas, so I might reach out to you and maybe we'll make it like a duo.
Speaker 1:Yes, Because this whole idea of community and how to do it right and how to build loyalty through community by not putting yourselves kind of center stage, yeah, my brain's like already building the PowerPoint in my head, so you know, and we can kind of bring those two different angles where it's like one really big kind of like company and brand, and then this other, more kind of mission based, but there's still like, as you're speaking, there's so many alignments and similarities and the ways in which we have managed to kind of maintain throughout a pandemic and nonetheless, you know a very, very amazing and effective community that is truly making differences in people's, not just their careers, but their lives, lives and it's like, but that's not without intention, that's not happening on accident.
Speaker 1:So I think, yeah, there's definitely opportunity for us to maybe collaborate together if you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would love to. Amy I mean, you built such an amazing space for people and so yeah, and again it wasn't just me, it took, it totally takes a village.
Speaker 1:So I can't take all the credit. It's like seriously, I appreciate it. And again, it wasn't just me, it took, it totally takes a village. So I can't take all the credit. It's like seriously. I'm a product of the community. I was a member first. So wouldn't even be sitting here owning and running a business, much less producing a podcast, if it wasn't for the women that surround me, the amazing, intelligent, awesome women that surround me. So, yeah, all right. Well, I don't see any questions yet into the um in the chat, but I do see lots of they're ready to come and see our talk. That's, that's good, that's exciting, all right. Well, let's get to the power round questions and then again, folks, um, we usually go to about the hour, so if you've got a question that you want to ask, don't be shy. It's okay, we like questions, right, all right, we did get a question from Jillian. Thank you so much for asking. She wants to know do you have any daily habits that help you succeed?
Speaker 2:Ooh, daily habits. I don't know if this is daily. Well, actually, no, it is definitely not daily, but I do think working out.
Speaker 2:Yes, so my New Year's resolution this year is to work out three to five days a week, previously, from zero. I like that. It's a range too so, but what I've noticed it's like been so hard to keep it up, but what I've noticed is I tend to have more energy. Yes, after my workouts I tend to be in a better mood and I I feel like I read more about working out than I actually work out. But they also to say, like the science of working out is like it helps you be more productive and helps you be more on top of things and more alert and whatnot. So yeah, yeah, I guess working out I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm with you. Honestly. I have swapped the notion that I am working out for my physical health. I've said it's just for my mental health and honestly, it's easier for me to feel motivated, especially when I wake up and it's, you know, five degrees outside and I'm like I don't want to get out of bed, but I'm like I know this weather and the darkness is going to just pull me down If I go work out, I know at the end, mentally, I'm going to feel so much better and have so much more clarity.
Speaker 1:So I think that's a great answer, and it doesn't have to be killing yourself on any kind of crazy machines or some excruciating workout.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it can literally just be a walk.
Speaker 1:Yes, a hundred percent. Let's just not go from zero to 60, because that's just setting yourself up for failure.
Speaker 2:Oh, actually the other thing, I would say morning routine yes, having a morning routine, oh, yeah, I got into coffee. I was never a big coffee person until last year and just like the routine of making your coffee in the morning, sitting down for breakfast, like getting yourself, giving yourself some space before you just roll into work For some reason, that really puts me in a good headspace before I do anything for the day.
Speaker 1:Yes, prime yourself for the day. One of my good friends, lucretia, listening live, she already put some little clappy hands in there. She is like so great at morning routine, by the way, so as soon as you said that, I'm like I can just feel her going. Yes, morning routine, she does. She has her ritual. She shares lovely pictures about it on Instagram. That, I think, probably help keep her accountable At least, that's how I sometimes use.
Speaker 1:Instagram when I'm like I did my calm up, yeah, meditation. I'm gonna share it because I did it. Yay, me, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's like it. Really. Is that like, yay, me feeling it's like you could make your morning routine just brush your teeth and like you're like, I brush my teeth, pat myself on the back, that's my morning routine.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite talks was from a I I think he was a retired army general who talked about why you should make your bed every morning and how, like, no matter how sideways the day goes, no matter what happens in that day, at the end of it you come back to a bed that was made and you're like I might've gotten anything done today, but that bed was made. I have made my bed every day since and it really does make a difference.
Speaker 2:Okay, gotta go make my bed, which is like right next to me.
Speaker 1:It's so subtle I'll have to find the talk and share it with you all. Maybe we can put it in the show notes. But I'm not gonna lie, it really makes the difference. And the days that I come back and the bed's not made, I'm like, oh man it wasn't made and that's usually because I left before everybody else was gone and the kids like came in and messed up the bed or my husband was sleeping in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But anyways what are your daily habits to succeed? I'm curious.
Speaker 1:I am with you on the working out. I you know I come, I fall on and off the wagon constantly, like everybody else, but I do find that I have greater mental clarity, stamina, emotional stability, especially in the wintertime when I am working out, because I am a nature nerd and I love the outdoors, and so when it's cold and I can't get out in the sunshine. I definitely feel a difference. But yeah, no, that journaling you know kind of on and off.
Speaker 1:Especially I'm more seasonal, I definitely feel like I have more ritual and routine during this time of year. I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, so it gets darker earlier, it's colder, I'm getting less sunlight, so for me, like meditation, journaling, working out, I'm much better about being routine with those in the winter months and then in the summer months it's usually actually spending as much time as I possibly can outside. That would be my routine. It's like how do I get?
Speaker 1:outside. I love that. Yeah, no, those are kind of my favorites. All right, it's funny because the next power on question. I'm going to mash with Jillian's question here and, Julie, I'll get to your question too, don't worry. I love that you guys are sending us so many questions, but Jillian wants to know, of course do you have any AI tools that you use or would recommend?
Speaker 2:Well, the tool that we're, I don't want. I don't think I can promote another company. Oh no, that's fair. Yeah, but yeah, we use. We use some internal AI tools. Actually, you know what the best AI tool in my life is right now? You know what the best AI tool in my life is right?
Speaker 2:now I just thought of it and it's like kind of perfect it's slack like yes, I don't know, I don't use email anymore, unless it's with external people and everything I need to do is in slack and then now I'm gonna sound like a corporate shell, I'm like, but honestly, like a corporate shill, I'm like, but honestly like coordinating, collaborating our documents, like everything is in Slack, and it also has AI summaries where I don't have to read through all the messages I missed.
Speaker 2:I could just read the recaps. And then it also has integrations where, like, it'll tell me what I missed or like things that I need to do. So, yes, that's the AI tool that I literally can't plan my day without.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's so wonderful. I agree. Our Together Digital Community is on Slack too. We've been on it since 2016 and you know just leaps and bounds with the abilities, the integrations, the automations that just make life easier. All right, julie had one more question and we'll end it there. Do you have any recommendations or suggestions or resources for portfolio development? She says most of my content is older and from sites that have since turned over, which, honestly, that could have been a year or two years ago.
Speaker 1:I've worked on websites that were huge lists and they're like I go back and I'm like you redesigned again. We spent a year and it lasted a year. In more recent years I have been doing more long form copy, more for journalism and trade publishing.
Speaker 2:Well, I can say, when I had a portfolio well, well, okay, let me answer that question with the present I honestly think LinkedIn is the best place for your portfolio now, like unless your role that you're applying to is like a creative, creative role, like, linkedin is kind of where I go to first when I'm going through people's work and just trying to see what they're talking about, what they've posted, what kind of um you know projects that they've put up there to take a look at, um. That being said, though, when I did have a portfolio outside of LinkedIn, I would say the problem that you're encountering is very common. You have all this content that you've put out there, that you have your name on, that suddenly disappears from the Internet. So, if you can, you can go to. There's this website, what's it called? Oh my God, internet Archive.
Speaker 1:You can go to Internet Archive.
Speaker 2:put in that website that link if you still have it and see what the page looked like, you can copy that page. You can take that content, put it onto your website and just do like a screenshot so you know.
Speaker 2:you have that proof that it did live somewhere at some point and then to answer your question if your content is older, you know what, if there is something stopping you from you know publishing newer stuff, like ask yourself what is that thing that's stopping you? Because I will say, as I'm evaluating, I do look for what. What have you done most recently? And so just just some thoughts for you, hopefully that helps you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say I think there's like a website, a website, time machine site to have to take it in the show notes, where you can kind of find things like that and go back and kind of see the site as it existed um yes, way back my back.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I was like somebody's gonna come in and save us here, yeah and then our community if you need permission from your publishers, my recommendation would be put your website, certain pages of your website, behind a password protected page. And that way it's not. You're doing it for interviews, no one's coming after you for republishing something.
Speaker 1:It's a great strategy, melissa. I love that. That's a perfect idea. Yeah, you're sending it to specific people. You're not blasting across the internet. Just make it password protected and then you don't have to worry about them kind of getting their hands on it. Great strategies, all of this, the mindset, hearing your story, learning more about you. It's been so much fun. Thank you so much again for showing up and being with us today. Thank you, amy for inviting me.
Speaker 2:This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:And I can't wait to do our presentation at content marketing world. Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm so excited. It was really good this year. I was kind of nervous at coming out of cleveland and going to the west coast and I was like it's gonna feel different. It's gonna, but the people are all the same and they're so lovely, um, and we have such a blast and there's such a great micro community and all the amys all the amys that are there.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, so so many Amy's.
Speaker 1:It's kind of weird. I know it's not like that special of a name, but it's just like I've never been in the same room with so many Amy's. But on that note, we'll call it a day. Thank you again, so much for being here with us. Thank you to our listeners for joining and asking your very thoughtful and amazing questions. We always appreciate you, our listeners and those who ask Next week, come back and see us again.
Speaker 1:Same time, same bat time, same bat channel. We're going to be talking about social media, sanity and you and this is one of our members, robbie Schneider, who basically took a goal last year with our authentic, ambition, goal-setting cohort and took her experience in healthcare and mental health and social media and created a book out of it. So we're excited to get in, dig into that with her, celebrate her and learn more how to manage social media in our sanity. All right, everyone, thank you again for joining us. We'll see you next week. Until then, keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. Produced by Heartcast Media.
