Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Design as a Disruptive Force
Discover the transformative impact of design thinking on business innovation in this episode of The Power Lounge. Amy Vaughan welcomes Karen Baker, managing owner of Seven Concepts Inc., recognized by Forbes as one of “3 Women Breaking The Glass Ceiling In The Male-Dominated Tech Industry.” With 26 years of experience driving marketing innovation and enhancing organizational performance across public, private, and academic sectors, Karen shares her expertise in crafting and executing growth strategies. Her collaborations with organizations such as Pernod Ricard, the American Diabetes Association, AARP, Black Entertainment Network, and the Smithsonian illustrate how design thinking goes beyond aesthetics to drive substantial business growth and resilience. Learn how integrating designers into strategic roles can transform your business approach and discover practical methods to implement these strategies in your own work. Whether you're in digital marketing or passionate about creative strategy, this conversation offers actionable insights to elevate your business innovation and adaptability through design.
Connect with Karen Baker on LinkedIn
Key Takeaways:
Karen Baker's Background and Career
Understanding Design Thinking
Application of Design Thinking in Various Sectors
Design Thinking as a Catalyst for Business Transformation
Influences on Karen Baker’s Approach to Design Leadership
The Role of Community in Design Thinking and Business Success
Technology and Its Impact on Design Thinking and Business Strategy
Social Art and Culture's Purpose and Impact
Transferable Skills and Career Adaptability
Role of Research in Design Thinking
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
01:18 - "Empowering Women in Business Design"
04:17 - Design Thinking in Program Development
08:13 - Design Thinking Solves Complex Problems
09:46 - Passion for Creative Problem-Solving
15:13 - Insightful Learning Experience
16:34 - "Podcasting: Focused Creative Reflection"
20:18 - Mastering AI in Food Photography
22:49 - Designing Impactful Social Programs
28:07 - "Blending Creativity and Strategy"
29:58 - Versatile Skills Across Industries
32:53 - Crossover Impact in Health Care
35:09 - Design Requires Community Collaboration
40:12 - Tech Vital for Small Businesses
42:00 - "Enhancing Business with Tech Tools"
44:45 - "Power Round Q&A Session"
48:31 - Upcoming Master Class Announcement
49:00 - Outro
Quotes:
"Good design isn't just about aesthetics; it's about transforming creativity into a competitive advantage."- Amy Vaughan
"Design thinking is not a theory; it's a methodology born to solve problems, turning ideas into impactful change across every facet of life."- Karen Baker
Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn
Power Lounge Podcast
Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by visiting togetherindigital.com.
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly power lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigitalcom, and today we are joined by someone who is transforming how businesses think about implementing design. Karen Baker is the managing owner of Seven Concepts Inc and has spent 26 years providing design thinking that isn't just about aesthetics. It's a powerful engine for business growth.
Speaker 1:Named by Forbes as one of three women breaking the wait it might've been not three, it might've been a year there that got lost being noted as a woman by Forbes who was breaking the glass ceiling in male-dominated tech industry, karen has been instrumental in reshaping how organizations like Pernod Richard and Think Local First DC approach innovation. She brings a unique perspective on turning creativity into the competitive advantage, and we are thrilled to have her here with us to share her insights with our community. Welcome, karen.
Speaker 2:Excited to be here. Hey everybody, good to see you, amy, as always, good to see you too.
Speaker 1:And we've got a future masterclass coming up with you as well, it's great, our last two podcast guests have been masterclass, future masterclass facilitators too.
Speaker 1:So you know, if you can't get enough and you need some more, Karen, you can join us for that as well. So we're excited for that, Karen, and again, just excited to hear your perspective and view on all things design and design thinking. You've been a champion for that for over two decades and I'm really curious what first drew you to see design as more than just a creative tool but an actual catalyst for business transformation?
Speaker 2:That is such a great question. It really took me to go to Savannah College of Art and Design and get my master's in design management, and it took someone else to see in me that this was a career path for me. A recruiter from SCAD saw my information for something else I had applied for another master's degree and hit me and said I think this would be a great opportunity for me for you to come into. So she sat with me here in DC and went through everything. I had no idea about design thinking at the time, didn't know anything about the methodology, and she was like this is an opportunity for you to advance yourself in business, you know, and in your career to learn a new skill. She was absolutely right.
Speaker 1:I love it, and what a way to pay it forward to see that potential in somebody and then just go right forward and let them know. Love that and I love SCAD. I worked for a video marketing company where we did a lot of animations. Oh yeah, we did some recruiting trips and we got to go down there and what an amazing campus and school and such brilliant students. I was jealous. I went to an art college but it was in Chicago and it was nothing like SCAD.
Speaker 2:But I loved it there. Well, you know, scad is a young school, so they have an opportunity to we talk about innovation, to be innovative because they are so young, so they keep, you know, trying new things. Yeah, you know, and this was a program that was a new thing for them too, that's so wonderful.
Speaker 1:I would also give kudos to the uh cleveland institute of art. We went up there as well and they're like, um like, not just their interior design, but their industrial design program was really cool okay I was just nerding out so hard, I was just thinking like all of these different ways again in which design flows through and exists in every little thing that we do.
Speaker 2:And we just, we take it for granted so much, very much so, very much so, I think, because we've just been taught that it's the end and the only thing. Creative is what you see. It's not what you have the idea about in the process of creating.
Speaker 1:We don't yeah, we don't see that and often don't value it Definitely, and so I want to dig into that a little bit more too, in how your work with organizations across public, private, academic sectors because you've really helped span them all what's been one of the more surprising ways that you've seen design thinking help with business growth.
Speaker 2:You know there are a couple. One I wasn't involved with, but I'll still mention it the Smithsonian actually used design thinking and they used it with their team in order to create better opportunities in programming with nonprofit organizations as an opportunity to research and strategize before you just go putting a program into your organization that also then goes into the community as well. And I think Local First was a good opportunity for me to do that over the four years of continuing to create something new. What is the need? And then let's look at why there's a need and then let's come up with a program that's going to fulfill that gap, that's going to give people what they need, you know.
Speaker 2:Then the business side. You know an opportunity to do it in banking, which was really exciting, you know, to meet with a marketing director, to meet with the person who's responsible for banking in the community and get their feedback, and out of that came a new banking program Wow. So it was a new banking program for startups that didn't exist before, and we made some tweaks to it to ensure that we could again get more people into the institution as well. But that was design. We went through that entire process, you know of mapping journey, mapping empathy, you know, talking through interviews, all of that stuff to create a banking program, and those are the things that people don't know are happening when you do design, on design thinking in particular.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's pause for that. To kind of get to that Cause. I think you know most of our members and listeners are pretty astute in like the space of digital advertising, marketing, design, um. But I just also realized that, like I was probably six years into my career in an agency before I even heard the term design thinking, and so I want to remind our live listeners you all can jump into the chat, ask questions if you have them. We'd love to hear them. But I want to back up for a second for those of our listeners who maybe don't know. You can talk about design being the end product. How would you define design thinking? Because you alluded to some steps there, but how do we paint that picture for our listening audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question and a good thing to actually speak about, because people have taken design thinking as a method. It's a methodology, first of all. So people are clear it's a methodology, because I've had people ask well, what does it do, or is it a practice, or is it, is it a theory? It's not a theory, it's a methodology. So, and the methodology is birthed out of the design council in the UK, so they use what it's like a five diamond system, and so there's a process you go through with ideation, visualization, you go through planning, implementation and execution, so there's some things that are very similar. People look at agile as one. However, design thinking is way ahead and came before that, and so that is the process that you go through. When you're bringing a product, a program, a business that you're designing into existence, those are the things that you go through to get there. So those, those are methodology practices that you use.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's great. Yes, I recall when I learned about it it was from a woman who had interned and then gotten hired into our agency and she kind of took us through that steps and we did a practice of like I think it was like building and making like a little purse out of paper and we were trying to solve the problem and it was such a great kind of contextual way and hands-on way for us to learn.
Speaker 1:It has always stayed with me and then I am super proud. I got to give her a shout out in case she's listening. Caitlin ended up. Now she's at ideo, which is, like, known for their design thinking right, also proud of her and the work she's done. So anyhow, yeah, another great company to follow if you're interested in like the design thinking and design methodology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you have applied this across corporate giants to non-profit organizations, so everyone can benefit from this. Yes, how does your approach to design driven changes shift between these different environments? Do they change or do you modify them based on where? Whoever you're consulting for?
Speaker 2:that's a great question question, and I'll go back when you said the problem solve. That's the purpose of design thinking is about problem solving. You go in. It's how complex the problem is, and I think that answers your question. It really depends on how complex it is as to if there's any pieces within the methodology that we may not have to spend as much time in is what happens.
Speaker 2:So you know, if you're talking about health equity, you know the work that we did with American Diabetes Association when I was at Boathouse. That was complex. You know, when we're talking about looking at mindset of those who are people living with type two diabetes and why they're not talking to their families or why they're not getting the patient education that they need, those are really complex problems. So we were in research for months, you know, talking to people, going through medical conferences, trying to make sure that we fully understood enough before we even got into the space of designing anything. You know we were in that particular area of research, which is again part of design thinking. So it really depends on how complex the problem is as to how much you spend in each step when you're looking at design as well, too, because you want to be able to measure it. You want to know that there's great outcomes in anything that you do with design. It's good design, good design.
Speaker 1:No, exactly, yeah, Just thoughtful, intentional, purposeful. I think that's what I've always loved about our industry and what we do is like I've always been creative, but I love using my creativity to solve problems. Yes, I wish I could just make art for the sake of art and feel satisfied, and sometimes I do but it's like more so. I just really love being creative and solving problems, and that's.
Speaker 1:I think what I've always loved about design thinking as well. You know, for a lot of our members within the Together Digital organization, a lot of them are working in educating and really fighting for the ability to elevate creative thinking within their organizations, especially if maybe they're in-house and not within an agency or serving clients that are not, you know, a creative type of company. What are some strategies that you found most effective when advocating for design seat?
Speaker 2:when it comes to the strategy, yeah, the biggest thing is advocating to have a seat at that table, because often you don't have a seat at the table, I think. I've found more designers in my career that don't have a seat at the table from the beginning. Everything is brought to them after decisions are made and they have thoughts, they have expertise.
Speaker 2:Some things that are decided in the strategy phase won't work when you try to be in a planning through execution timeframe. So even when you're in the visualization standpoint, it's an opportunity to have designers at the table bringing that level of what you just spoke about creativity to the conversation to say this is what I could bring and this is what would be even better than what we have Now. You gotta have diverse voices, and designers at the table really bring a diverse voice as well too. So lobby for a seat at that table to make sure that you can bring in your expertise and you get a chance to hear firsthand why decisions were made, because when you get it at the end, you don't even know why decisions were made. You're just following suit, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we aren't just here to make things look pretty, not at all. I always say that, just that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always say that stop looking at designers only to make things that look good. Yeah, you know at the end, yeah, that's a part of it, absolutely, but it is not the only. You know the level of research that a designer has to do. There's quite a bit of work. Even if they're in the graphic designer, even if they are an artist, they still have to do a level of research. Creative people have to do a level of research to bring that work to you as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's something. There's nothing better than the two things coming together of something that is beautifully designed and beautifully functional.
Speaker 1:That's right, right that's right, it is the best feeling and I think that's what I enjoyed so much about going through the industrial design portion of the the schools we talked about because it was that it was that functionality meets beauty, and it was just like it feels so genius. It's the same thing when I go to like planned cities or like neighborhoods that are just intentionally laid out. It's like the aesthetic is there, but then also the ease and flow of use is there and it's so so critical and what we're building and creating across the board, so I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it and I love industrial design Right.
Speaker 1:I am the same in architecture and all that stuff. I mean it's just it really, really adds to, I think, our quality of life Correct. You know and we do take it for granted.
Speaker 2:We do take it for granted, absolutely. So yeah, we need our designers at the table. I love that advice. That's good advice.
Speaker 1:So bring them. If you're not the designer yourself, bring a designer with you early, yeah exactly yeah, with you early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah, open the door to them. You know, if you come into a company and you find that they are not part of that conversation, you know have a conversation about opening them to be part of that table. You know, and and it's even a great experience, you know to be part of those conversations for them. You know, to it's also when you talk about a cultural belonging. You know they feel like they belong and they're not separated from this leadership team. They're inclusive in that leadership team. I think that's also very important.
Speaker 1:Agreed. I don't think everybody wants to just be the hands.
Speaker 2:Some people do. Don't get me wrong, I've got people.
Speaker 1:I've worked with people that are like just give me the thing and let me do it but for the most part, yeah. If you really want to bring people along on the journey of what it is that you're trying to build and create like, you have to involve them. Yeah, you know they need to be bought into, and then they will put in their best effort as well Correct Absolutely, absolutely. So I'm curious what has either who or what has been some influences for you and how you?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question. I think that a couple I'll say a couple people probably come to mind more than anything. One is a former advisor of mine, dr Leslie Noel. She's now a dean in Toronto Awesome, that is about inclusivity. She's always big on observation and listening, you know, and so that type of leadership mirrors my leadership, you know as well, and then has been very instrumental, you know, in my career as well, to elevating my thinking around design, particularly design research, which is what I was getting my doctorate in. And so those, you know that is just a good model you know to follow. I do like IDL. I just finished a class with them last- night, as a matter of fact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and I've taken two classes with them and they always I go in saying in two classes with them and they always I go in saying, oh, I know this, but then I learn so much more, right, you know. So I really think that they have a really good model and you know, it has been and I'm gonna be honest, it's been debate, you know, particularly in pedagogy. Let me say that, um, about how much they have done or what they bring, but really really who they hire, let me say that to instruct these classes or create these levels of this curriculum has been good for me and I've been in this for a while and I still come out learning more, you know. So I just think they are really a great model for education, particularly when you just need a little bit, you know, not necessarily a whole degree, but you need just a little bit to keep you kind of knowing what's going on with the industry staying relevant to the marketplace. Definitely, I think that it's extremely, you know, extremely important as well. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You can tell that they live and breathe it for sure they have got such a passion for it, and so, yeah, I love that they're constantly like pushing design education out there.
Speaker 1:So for those of you who are interested in kind of getting going down that rabbit hole, I do recommend and would recommend that correct. I think I was now. It was just so funny I had this flash in this moment, because it's not often. This is what I love about like podcasting is I get to sit and like focus on just one topic for about an hour, and it's just one of those things where it's like it's funny all the things that come to your mind, because how often do I get to just sit and talk about?
Speaker 2:and think about design and it's so good.
Speaker 1:And I realized now I was really fortunate while I was going to school in Chicago. I was working full time and I was going to go to school at night and during the day I worked for a graphic design firm and he went to like the institute of design um in like near chicago, like studied bauhaus, so like very kind of like old old school like design, and it really really influenced me early on, even though I didn't end up going in like I actually chose copywriting versus design because I was like I just don't to at the time I'm dating myself. It was like you had to have a big tower and a huge screen and I couldn't just go anywhere.
Speaker 1:But I was like I take my laptop and go right across the street and even, marcus which I would do great place to write when you're talking to consumers sit there at the cafe and do my writing. But yeah, I've always had such a tremendous respect for design and designers and you know, folks like you and then my, my old boss that I worked with just that are constantly like living and breathing it and sharing their knowledge in it. It was just and their passion for it.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:I love getting back into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is good. Hey, you know, I could talk about it all day, talk about it all day. But you know, I hearing you say about copywriting oh my goodness, over the last three years the value of a copywriter is a value.
Speaker 2:You know, I think, because I took a class with IDEO the storytelling for influence and it was great, and I say that because it pushed to go beyond just the words. If that makes sense to anyone, you know what I'm saying Absolutely does. And as a copywriter, you have this ability to just imagine, you know, and bring words to a page that people like anything they're going to critique, but you have the ability to bring it to the page and people to be like wowed or didn't think of that you know, or put them in a world that they never imagined they could be put into. You know what I'm saying. So you know they're just that profession is very essential, regardless of how fast technology moves.
Speaker 2:We need the human body.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, absolutely, absolutely. I am right there with you, I loved it, I really enjoyed it and you're right, you get that chance to really impact people in such a quick way. And I'm pretty sure, like I still have, like some of my like five favorite headlines, it like always at the top of my head, that I will forever be proud of, and it's just like four or five words, but those four or five words like carried entire campaigns and compelled people to take action and do things, and I'm like you did that with just a couple words.
Speaker 1:And that's powerful, it really is it really is, and so, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:Ai is a tool we're always talking about here at Together Digital. We're not shying away from it. We are learning how to embrace it and use it to our benefit, and that's the thing. It's, like you know, with all of this stuff I think you know, even in the discussion of AI for, like, photography and videography, because I have friends in all of those areas and our conversation has been the people who will succeed and get through this moment in time are the ones that learn how to, in hardness and embrace it.
Speaker 1:Because, at the end of the day, only good copywriters good copy.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1:You know, very true, designers know a good design when they see it, and so there's a gentleman I know, terry I can't think of his last name right now, but he's an amazing 30 plus year veteran of food photography. Okay, and he has truly embraced ai and his work. Karen would challenge anybody to try to guess what is ai and what is not with him, but it's because he knows like intimately what food photography is, what good lighting set prop like all of the details, of even how like certain elements and pieces of food, like I think he was looking at something once and he's like cheese wouldn't melt that way and I was like what?
Speaker 2:how do you know?
Speaker 1:cheese won't melt that way, terry's like, because I looked at enough melted cheese in 30 years to know that it wouldn't like. That's like, not the way that it would look. That's not right. I know that. That's the AI and so we still need experts in these areas to really kind of keep that work elevated, so yeah, yeah, and he'd have to feed that to AI.
Speaker 2:It wouldn't know. You know what I'm saying? It would. It can't have lived experiences. No, absolutely not. You know what I'm saying. We're feeding it lived experiences. It needs us.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Even when you go back to the research, that's research him knowing that it wouldn't melt that way, right? So somebody has to humanly be able to position himself, particularly in an industry like that. Food, you know, cause, we know. Food is experience. You know what I'm saying. It's something that we embody, we have to take part in. You know, in order to do so, you turn around and move into the visual aspect of that. If I look at it from this side, I need to be able to believe it, meaning, I need to look at it and know, oh, I want to taste that.
Speaker 1:Right, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I want that. It's a tricky one too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, because I also think even just your everyday average consumer, they kind of they can look at stuff and they can look at something and they'll know yeah, yeah, it's not fooling us yet yeah, exactly you know.
Speaker 2:You always say in marketing that you know consumers know what they know. You know what I'm saying. They really do don't. Don't underestimate, no, what they know. Don't try to get away with nothing don't try particularly now.
Speaker 1:No, right, oh so funny, all right. So let's talk a little bit about your work with social art and culture. It's definitely, you know, it's. It's helping create, like, deep understanding, community impact. How do you see design thinking playing a role in creating more purposeful business outcomes? We've talked about, like how it can improve your overall business outcomes and objectives, but what about purpose?
Speaker 2:No, it's a great question, and I always appreciate people talking about social art and culture, because I founded social art and culture so it was, you know, and the purpose of this foundation was to fill a gap. So, and it came about a couple years before I really knew about design thinking. But as soon as I did, social art and culture was the first place I was able to apply it, because I was able to use the knowledge of how to really design programs that were going to be impactful. Right, the design programs and the social art and culture is based on bringing artists to another level. And how are we gonna be able to do that? You know, how are we gonna be able to make sure we did life-changing moments with artists and the communities that they serve? So this had to trickle down, you know as well.
Speaker 2:So we have spent times, sometimes a year, and I don't know a lot of nonprofits that spend a year in design before they introduce something to the constituents, the members that they have. But that's the things we've done. Because of the background that I have, I'm like we're not moving until we know, you know, and so sometimes financially, that's not always the greatest thing, but at the end of it all, that's not always the greatest thing, but at the end of it all, it ends up being the greatest thing because the joy that we have, you know, as a me, as a founder, us as a board of directors, and the input that we get from the people that go through not only the programs that touch the things that we do they, they, they bring me to tears, they literally do, and that's the work that you want to do, that's the work you want, that's the feeling that you want to get when you bring something to the table that you know again is really good design.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's so exciting. Thank you for sharing it, thank you for doing that work too, because it is so important, you know, know to be bringing up and bringing in, like the next generation, and elevating artists and creativity, because I think sometimes it is in a society that feels very, very focused on results and productivity and, you know, just get it done, get it fat done fast, sort of thing, fast and cheap kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:yes, it is so good to kind of get people to slow down and reconnect with that, with their creativity and with design, and when you said it is a process to connect.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. It makes me think of that. When you say it is a process to connect, it's not quick. No, it's not quick. And sometimes you're even in a community, meaning you live in it. You know what I'm saying. Culturally, you may be part of it and there's still much more to learn in it.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. Culturally, you may be part of it and there's still much more to learn. You know. It does not make it so that you already are knowing of everything. You still have a lot to learn to truly connect because, again, everybody has a different lived experience.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, and you want to know more about that when you're really trying to design something great you know, and you may have to, as we say, say, reiterate, reiterate, reiterate, you know, until you get the right thing, so that they feel that they are engaged, involved and they were thought about everything that you did.
Speaker 1:Agreed, agreed, yeah, it's like they almost want to see themselves their needs being met within that thing that you've created, and so that's why we connect to it. I love that that's such a great thought, such a great thought, all right. So, looking at your year career, what is a commonly held belief about design and business that you have that you've completely changed your mind about, kind of from where you started to where you are now. That's a great one.
Speaker 2:Good questions, Amy. I think for me what has probably changed is research has to be done. I am strongly a strategist, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know I think I came in to design really being strongest in design strategy and once I spent the time in research, you know, sitting out at a park observing people in order to design something, you know, sitting at a food hall to design, you know, then you're like, wow, you know, and that is the part now for me in business can't be missed, you know, can't be skipped over. You know has to be put into the process, has to be financially put in as a line item. You know all of that stuff has to occur for research. So that's another area where you can sometimes not have a researcher at the table too. You know, sometimes they are brought in way too late, yeah, and they're trying to move around. What is happening, you know, trying to adjust and trying to find information because the topic and the question has already been formed, you know. So research is, is, is, is, uh, it has to be part of everything. That is the shift that's probably happened with you over the last three years. Yeah, no, I would agree.
Speaker 1:And then the amount of you know, data that we have at our fingertips that we can generate and create. I would say, of all the things, data that we have at our fingertips that we can generate and create. I would say, of all the things like. That's one of the things I appreciate AI for is helping me to analyze all of that data.
Speaker 1:You know to help me see insights and opportunities that maybe I couldn't pick up with my own, like two little human eyes and brain, you know. And yeah, and I love what you said too about that creative and strategy too. I thought it was interesting when I first started out in the industry. Somebody came up to me and said you should work as a strategic planner, you should be in strategy, not copywriting. And I'm like, aren't they kind of one in the same?
Speaker 2:There's so much strategy.
Speaker 1:I'm like why do we separate? These things Like if I'm in an industry where I'm writing to solve a problem. I think I need to be a little bit of a strategic writer personally. Yeah, I think a lot of us creatives get thrown into that bank of like oh they're just creatives, you know they're over there, yeah, and that just gets put on it too.
Speaker 2:That just, yeah, gets put on it too.
Speaker 1:You're so right that modifier that really minimizes their role, and so, yeah, I do love to see now that there are more like creative strategists and it's like strategy is a part of what you're looking for when you're hopefully looking for content creators.
Speaker 2:If not you should be. That's right. Add it in because you're seeing title like content strategist. You know now that you didn't see before, so someone saying that to you just was behind the curve. They you know now that you didn't see before. So someone saying that to you just was behind the curve. They, you know, needed to catch up a little bit because it really is part of the thinking through process, that creative thinking process with that goes into content, goes into writing. It is part of the process.
Speaker 1:It absolutely is Love it. All right. So you've successfully navigated several industry transitions, which is amazing, and I think sometimes people feel that that's an impossible thing to do, which clearly it's not, because you've done it.
Speaker 2:What role?
Speaker 1:has design thinking played in helping organizations and actually not the organizations? You stay resilient during change.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, you know, I think that it is a tool in my tool belt that will never go away. Yeah, right, so I I have always been one to educate myself on, on skills that will be transferable across industries, right, and it's funny because sometimes people say to me oh, it seems like you've done a little bit of everything. I've just done different industries, you know, and I view that as value because you know, I can go into multiple industries and not lose my skills, right, and bring my skills as an addition to an organization or a client as a result of being able to do multifaceted, in that it's just, the industries have changed. I've done healthcare, I've done entertainment, I've done you know what I'm saying Climate, but it's never changed. It hasn't been design thinking, design research, the strategy, all of those things are things that are transferable skills. Yeah, you know, they just move across industry. So that has been extremely helpful to me and I've been purposeful in going after degrees that I know are going to go across multiple industries yeah, that's so smart.
Speaker 1:It's such a smart way to work because, at the end of the day we've said this so many times on this podcast is that no career is linear and no one job is forever. And then we have a lot of women who are being impacted right now by layoffs, yes, and they just sit back and they think, oh, I've done and been all these things, but what does it all mean? They don't often think about what's the narrative.
Speaker 2:What are the transferable?
Speaker 1:skills so that I can champion myself and position myself. It's like they kind of just go in I don't know, like just almost shying away from, instead of owning the power and the experience that they have. So I agree with you, I think look for those kind of common through lines for you, obviously, design thinking, continuing your education in that space, always learning and growing in that space, yeah, the more types of industry experience you've acquired, gosh, how much better are you now, because then all of a sudden, like you can, especially as a creative strategist too, which I imagine that you very much are- yeah, you can see like potential commonalities, where it's like okay, yeah I'm over here.
Speaker 1:In health care, yeah, and they have these systems. But also in banking, yeah, there's like this thing from health care that I can take and actually apply that's working well over here in banking and it's like without that you don't have that experience to bring. So it's like why wouldn't you want to hire somebody that has cross-industry experience? So people who are hiring, I'm talking to you too that's right. Don't minimize a person, especially women, please just because they have a diverse experience and background look at it look at the whole and don't label.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. Don't label it as okay, well, you don't know. Only this you know. Be glad for that, because it does. It has also been helpful in um, lead generation and business development. Yeah, you know, because you've been able to see the crossover between the two and where you can apply some things, even when, when you're pitching, you know a client in that particular way Because, again, say, you've been in health care for 35 years and you've only been absorbed in that. Let's cross over the difference of the energy or climate and how that's impacting your healthcare, which is starting to happen. Actually, that's starting to happen Like, oh, we can't stand over here. You stand over here. We got to stand together. It took someone to see that. And try, take these two industries and say we need to start working together and not be these standalone types of things.
Speaker 2:So don't do that to people you know as well as they stand, particularly with, like you said, so many people transitioning not by choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly Love it. Yeah, being fresh eyeballs. I always loved being the new kid at my company.
Speaker 2:I'd be like I don't know nothing.
Speaker 1:So I'm just going to come up with some random ideas and I'm going to ask lots of questions. But that should be us all the time, right.
Speaker 2:We hope so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it All right. So for leaders who are just beginning to explore design thinking as a growth strategy what's one unexpected place? They should start looking for opportunities to apply this.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a great one. So there are a couple, probably, institutions that have been around for quite some time. Design Management Institute would be one. I would say they've celebrated 50 years this year. Nice Would be a really good one to look at. Like I said, the Design Council in the UK would be good.
Speaker 2:Even if you live in the States, the United States, you still should look at them as another means of doing that. And then there are, if you're in the Washington DC area, there's something called Design Thinking DC, and they do, you know workshops, and all of them are interactive and engaging. Like they put a topic out and you discuss that topic, you work on that topic, which is good, real time experience for people as well too. So you know, I think, and there's're about solving problems, and particularly, like I said, the more complex they are. You understand that you need to gather around community Most times. You don't want a designer who designs in silos. No, you know you, you don't want that because that's not its purpose. You know its purpose is for you to move further out, you know, and particularly how you're going to research, how you're going to strategize, how you're going to talk to people. That's a big part of it. So you don't really want a designer that just sits in silos and doesn't move around and have some level of community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. Community is such an important part of that. It keeps you connected to those who are passionate about what you're passionate about. You know it kind of it doesn't? It's not like, especially if it's like a healthy community. It's not about you know, going over one or the other. It's not about competing. It's really about that collective knowledge and learning that really does make like a huge difference in sort of your own ability to just even want to show up and like make things happen right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, community of a competition yes, always, every time every time, every time.
Speaker 1:Now. I love that and that's definitely kind of our motto here too, because again, I think it is just one of those things when you are sharing it passionately versus competitively. Yeah, it's just so different you know, and so it's like people like how do you stay informed? And you know some people will list, and I love that you said community, because some people will list, and I love that you said community because some people will list like publications, magazines and newsletters, but all of that is in isolation and then there's no commentary.
Speaker 1:There's no back and forth conversation versus when you're in community you actually get to sit and have the conversation and maybe just critically think about it a little more critically because you're discussing it versus just taking it in and moving on to your next thing. So, outside of just the sheer motivation factor, you know, of sharing passion with people about certain things and nerding out like we, did here on Design Today you know it.
Speaker 1:just it makes it such a different approach to that consistent learning, and I think we don't necessarily always think of community as the answer for that.
Speaker 2:And it's just like it's the answer to so much so I love that you mentioned, like the DC community as the answer for that, and it's just like it's the answer to so much so I love that you mentioned, like the DC community as well.
Speaker 1:I know we've got a few members actually that reside in the DC area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm sure they'll check it out. Another one will be the Design Justice Network. Most people in the Design Justice Network are using design for some social cause.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they. They created this network. They started in 2015, formalized it in 2020 and they set their own 10 principles around it as well. I've been a member for about three years now, but you talk about robust conversation.
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure you know, oh, yeah, definitely do.
Speaker 2:I mean, they they really talk about. And again, the community supports one another. So there's always job opportunities that are popping up, that they're like oh, I'm only putting this here, you know, and because I know that this community gets it you know, I've seen that many times that language you know, I'm putting it here because I know this community you're gonna understand exactly and we won't have to go through this process of do you understand it, because you'll be coming from this particular community.
Speaker 2:So the Design Justice Network is a really, really great network. I instantly went into it. I felt like they were holding space for me.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so good. That is so good. Yeah, absolutely, I'm going to check it out no-transcript exists. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We still have to pay it forward.
Speaker 1:Definitely All right. My last question that I have for you before we go into the power round and then I'll also check with our live listening audience to see if they have any questions is we've talked a little bit already about creative technology and how it's continuing to evolve. How do you see the relationship between design thinking and business strategy evolving in the next few years?
Speaker 2:Ooh, I think the biggest thing is, yeah, technology is going to play a big part in it. It really is. People are going to have to. If they're resistant to it and I've wrote about this many times they're going to need to start to embrace it. It's how you embrace it right, so it there's going to be a cost factor um to it as well, because these tools some of them are in beta, yeah, you know, right now, and and willing to do a little more negotiation with price um, some of them are moving so fast you're going to have to figure out how to get the cost paid in, because the consumer and we are consumers of it are going to latch on so fast that they're not going to have to negotiate.
Speaker 2:So I think technology is going to be a big part of business for those who may be smaller at that point, not the big corporations, you know they're going to have to look at, even if they don't have a chief technology officer, they're going to have to have somebody in place to understand and keep up with what's going um, so that they're able to not get left behind. Because I think that the digital divide is going to widen yes, um, it is not just going to widen amongst people in their home. Sure, it's going to widen within business and small businesses in particular, um, and solo entrepreneurs who don't necessarily have the revenue, sometimes not the education as well, to be prepared to set a business up structurally, to be ready for the level of technology that is going. It's just going to move rapid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were so right, karen. It's such a small business advantage. So, for those of you who do run and own and operate small businesses, it's such a small business advantage.
Speaker 1:So, for those of you who do run and own and operate small businesses, like if you can be an early adopter be an early adopter, it's going to let you one person, three people, however many you've got work like five, 10 people and, like you said, these behemoth companies that you know again have a lot more not a lot more at stake, but I guess, like they have a lot more rigor and bureaucracy and layers and legal that is really holding them back from being able to jump on it and like leverage it. You are so right and it's funny that this is coming up, because it's come up often, so often. Lately, I just launched a coaching practice on coachingcom Thanks.
Speaker 1:And I was. It was all about authentic leadership, finding your authentic leadership voice.
Speaker 1:I want to help these women who are looking a little dead in the eyes, to just really step into their own form of executive presence and but also in that, talking to some of my small business owner friends, being in digital and an early adopter for a lot of technologies like automation and AI and other backend platforms, they're all like you need to add this to your coaching offerings and I was like I would love to, because it is. It is like a, it's like rocket fuel for a business where you can automate and make very daunting tasks for my friends who own like catering businesses waxing companies, roofing companies like be able to operate like they're 10 years ahead of things, with just a little bit of tech.
Speaker 1:So I right, that was a great answer, karen. I can't, I can't. I could not agree enough with you.
Speaker 2:No, I appreciate that. I really do, because I'm like you know you. You could easily have fear. You know what I'm saying. The not easy part is you actually leap it in. You know what I'm saying and actually embracing it and understanding how does it benefit your business? How do you, as a leader, begin to grow or scale, depending on what point you're at your business as a result of technology? A lot of times we're at your business as a result of technology. A lot of times we're looking at from the side of okay, how do we gain more money or how do we get more clients? But technology is going to be like that other part of business as we move forward. I mean it is now. It's just like I don't think enough conversations are being had about it. So I appreciate the question. I just don't think enough conversations to be had about, particularly again in small businesses. Like how are we equipping small businesses with technology strategies so that they can be around much longer? You know.
Speaker 2:And exactly, and because we just cut a lot of jobs in the Small Business Administration and the IRS just today cut their small business and so entrepreneur people. You know who's going to help us.
Speaker 1:We need it more than ever, yeah.
Speaker 2:So add it to your coaching practice. I will. Yes, ma'am, I will. Well, and it's like small businesses.
Speaker 1:I think I can't remember the exact stat they create over 50% of the jobs in the country Am. I right Like we can't afford to lose them, and small businesses train.
Speaker 2:They're willing to invest in people they usually hire within the neighborhoods and communities in which they live. You know this is important. Yeah, agreed, it's important, agreed. I love this conversation and our little bonus message here for our small businesses.
Speaker 1:You know this is important. Yeah, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 2:I love this conversation and our little bonus message here for our small businesses we love you all. Yes.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, let's pivot over into our power round. So these are some fun quick questions for us. To kind of wrap it up, I'll keep an eye on the chat. You all can connect with Karen as well. There's a LinkedIn link up there for her if you want to connect.
Speaker 2:Yes, please do. Always happy to connect.
Speaker 1:I love it, and then we'll jump into these questions before we wrap things up. All right, what is your go-to creative unblocking ritual when you feel stuck?
Speaker 2:What do you do? Oh, that's a good one. I'm a weaver. A lot of people don't know that?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so cool. I love it.
Speaker 2:I will weave or I'll pick up some needles and I'm going to knit. And I zoned out.
Speaker 1:I love it, that is so good, that is so good. Oh, I never could get the hang of knitting. I don't know why I got crocheting Fine.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, all right.
Speaker 1:I don't get it.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's like easier or what, or just the way Awesome. I have to take a look at some of your pieces later. Yes, yes, that's so fun. I love it.
Speaker 1:That unnecessary creativity is a great, great block, I think like adult coloring.
Speaker 2:I was looking at you for a while. All that stuff really does kind of help your brain sort of go into a different place. Yeah, you need to decompress, yeah, you need to Create people as a creative and I definitely consider myself that you need an opportunity to rest your mind so that you can continue to create. If you're on autopilot like that nine times out of 10, you're really not getting the best out of who you are.
Speaker 1:No, exactly, Rest is so important. So again, big note there to those who are on creative teams fostering creative teams, you know, leading creative teams. Yeah, they need that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know leading creative teams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they need that. Yeah, Love it. All right. What's one unexpected object?
Speaker 2:that inspires your design thinking. Oh, that is a great question. An object, oh wow. What comes to mind is a pencil. I love it, I have been writing pencil for the last seven months. Yeah, and not in pen. It does something for me, that's interesting I love that it does something for me, and it makes me not only because the writing makes me remember.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I think the medium of a pencil allows for sketching. Yeah, it allows for just impromptu doodling, you know. So it's a great question, but it's the pencil I love it.
Speaker 1:That's a great answer, and the other thing I like that is I feel like it allows for mistakes, exactly.
Speaker 2:I can embrace too, you know. So it does. I get excited to take notes with a pencil and not a pen. It's been like seven, eight months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so funny. You might have me. I might be another convert right behind you.
Speaker 2:Because I have all pens at my desk. Everything's so permanent.
Speaker 1:But I love sketching too, Because that's another good kind of like mind, almost mindless creative activity right Like doodling is actually very good for our brains.
Speaker 2:It's very myself, very myself. I love it.
Speaker 1:This has been so fun, karen. All right, I got this one last question and then we'll wrap it up if we don't have anything else from our listening audience. Okay, all right. I would love for you to finish the sentence Good design is like good coffee, because Good design is like good coffee, because it energizes you throughout your day.
Speaker 2:I love it. It does it does.
Speaker 1:I hope you all move into the rest of the day and the weekend just not taking design for granted. Look around, see where you, now that you know a little bit more about design thinking, what it is, how it works, you know Karen's given us some great tips and resources and places we can go to like learn and dig in more. But yeah, once you kind of unlock the idea of design thinking, it's kind of hard to put it away because it's so useful.
Speaker 2:Very true, Amy, Great point yeah absolutely All right, karen.
Speaker 1:Well, it was so fun talking to you and looking so forward to your masterclass that we've got coming up. We'll be sure to share that information in our Slack to our members Everyone. Thank you all so much for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure. It's always a good way to end the week when we do this. So thank you so much for taking the time to tune in and we hope to see you all next week. Until then, keep asking, keep giving and keep growing.
