Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Undiplomatic: Leadership Impact & Elevating Untapped Talent
Welcome to the Power Lounge. In this episode, host Amy Vaughan speaks with Deesha Dyer, a seasoned social impact strategist, author, and leader whose career journey spans from community college to serving as White House Social Secretary under President Obama. Deesha discusses her experiences navigating unconventional paths to leadership, building authentic confidence, and transforming imposter syndrome into empowerment.
Amy and Deesha explore the challenges of being a pioneer in traditional environments like the White House and share practical strategies for maintaining authenticity under pressure. They also delve into Deesha's book, "Undiplomatic," which offers guidance on elevating untapped talent and fostering genuine equity and inclusion within organizations.
This conversation provides valuable insights for anyone striving to advance in their career, make a meaningful impact in their community, or seek authenticity in their professional life. Learn why true leadership comes from within, how to dismantle barriers to diverse leadership, and why your unique journey can be your greatest strength.
Deesha Dyer is a social impact strategist and author of "Undiplomatic." Her path from community college to White House Social Secretary exemplifies the power of nontraditional leadership. As the founder of Hook & Fasten, Deesha helps organizations navigate the evolving landscape of leadership, social impact, and equity, focusing on empowering untapped talent.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
01:40 - Ongoing Leadership Journey
04:54 - Oval Office Imposter Syndrome
07:54 - Nervousness versus Confidence Confusion
10:22 - Staying Grounded Through Experience
14:01 - Authenticity in Tough Environments
16:50 - "Fix Bias Before Hiring Diversity"
21:45 - Champion Women in Hip Hop
25:15 - Corporate-Community Partnerships for Essential Needs
27:40 - Maslow's Hierarchy and Marketing Impact
30:55 - Making Paths Easier for Others
34:37 - Corporate Responsibility for Social Equity
37:26 - Rediscovering Childhood Joys
40:22 - Rethinking Success: Opportunity Over Intelligence
45:05 - Believe in Yourself
47:40 - Navigating Job Posting Uncertainty
49:31 - "Striving vs. Being: A Crisis"
52:42 - "Power Lounge Chat Highlights"
53:03 - Outro
Quotes:
"Believe in your abilities and your talent, even if your path doesn’t look like anyone else’s. You are one of one, and your perspective is needed."- Deesha Dyer
"Celebrate your wins and remember: courage comes after the action, not before. Sometimes being brave is just being afraid and doing it anyway."- Amy Vaughan
Key Takeaways:
Nontraditional Paths Are Powerful
Confidence Lives Inside You
Imposter Syndrome vs. Authentic Confidence
Be the Example for Others
Rethink Merit and Opportunity
Challenge Harmful Systems, Not Just Individuals
Community and Connection are Anchors
Don’t Wait for Permission
Resilience Means Self-Care and Staying Curious
Legacy is Leaving It Better
Check out Deesha Dye’s book: https://a.co/d/hTd9wqI
Connect with Deesha Dyer:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deeshadyer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deedyer267/?hl=en
Website: https://www.hookandfasten.com/
Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast: https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/
Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power Lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigitalcom and today I am so thrilled to welcome Disha Dyer. She is a social impact strategist, author, transformational leader, whose extraordinary journey exemplifies how the power of non-traditional paths to leadership can be so satisfying and so transformative.
Speaker 1:From a community student, college student to White House social secretary under the Obama administration, deesha has navigated spaces where she never expected to belong and thrived. Now, as the founder and CEO of Hook Fasten, she helps organizations navigate the evolving landscape of leadership, social impact and equity. Her recent book Undiplomatic, which our Together Digital members read and loved and actually had Disha with us for a discussion, shares her personal story of turning imposter syndrome into confidence and creating systems that allow diverse leadership to flourish. Highly recommend 10 out of 10. Read Disha's unique perspective, from working at the highest levels of government to her current work centering untapped talent, offers an invaluable wisdom and authentic leadership and meaningful change. Disha, we are so happy to have you here with us at the PowerLoud to meet more of our amazing community. Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be in conversation again after the book event so happy to be here, thank you everyone for joining.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We wanted more Deesha. We're like bring her back, let's have more conversation. Because you know your journey and your experience. I have a lot of women on this podcast and we always start asking like, what has your journey been like? You know I'm not a huge fan of success without strife and I really love when women share their authentic experiences and stories because it really helps others see themselves in the opportunities that maybe haven't come to them yet, but to know that they're there. So you started off as a community college student and eventually rose to the White House Social Secretary. It's absolutely remarkable. I loved hearing and reading your story and then getting to meet you, but I'm curious what was one of the most unexpected lessons you learned about leadership during all of that transition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know, honestly, I'm continuing to learn about leadership number one. So even though I've reached this, you know, this high pinnacle of working at the White House, even though I've reached this high pinnacle of working at the White House, my student journey of learning is always going as I grow and as I discover different me to be a good leader already, versus I have to learn how to do this and learn how to do that. Obviously, there are some things like managing people or changing to the environment that we do have to do, but the core qualities of service, of seeing people, of instilling confidence, of delegation, like all those things, are things that were inside of me. They just were activated even more once I got to the White House, and so I think that was a surprise for me, because I thought I had to take all these classes or all these certifications or read all these books to kind of be a good leader, which I think those things enhance you as a leader. But to me, I had the qualities already in me.
Speaker 1:And that tracks right. I think they say, like, what is it? Women or men will apply for jobs if they're 60% qualified. Women will wait till they're 100, 110% qualified, and we're like holding ourselves back. And I think one other thing I loved about hearing your story and journey is that there were and I'm fortunate I'm a beneficiary as well of people seeing the potential in me and lifting me up and encouraging me, and I felt like that was very similar for you as well, where they were like Tisha, like yeah, you are the person to do this.
Speaker 1:And you're like, oh yeah, you're right, I am, you know, and I think that's something amazing that we can do for others, and I would love to see more men and women do for women in general as well as just really see that potential in others and lift them up, you know, and call them out for those things Because, yeah, when you've got it, you've got it and you know we need to lift each other up for those kinds of situations. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit more about your book on diplomatic and how, especially, you're focused on transforming imposter syndrome into authentic confidence, which you know, those two words, both authentic and imposter syndrome, get used a lot, um so context and stories for me and our listeners are always great.
Speaker 2:I'd love it if you could share a moment when you realized that you belonged in the rooms, that others might have questioned your presence um, I would say just, you know, honestly, for the sake of also really entertaining people that are listening, and here I would say the Oval Office. You know, I think that when we think of the Oval Office, obviously it's in the West Wing, it's where the president works and you know where he has all these important meetings. He, she, has these important meetings and for me, being in that space, I was like am I here? Like to just like get the water, like I was like what service capacity could I do? Which is, again, no problem doing that, but I was like kind of like I'm in service of everybody in here versus being on the team of everybody in here, kind of working together and for me that was a big jolt because I for a long time was like you know, I don't really belong in here.
Speaker 2:Wait till they find out that I, you know, went to community college. I don't have any four-year degree, but nobody asked those questions. So I think that oftentimes we get these spaces and like we're going to be found out, but who's nobody's asking? Nobody said like what's your education level before you start talking and before you're invited in this meeting they saw the qualities of who I was, and so I would say that was probably the biggest jolt for me. You know, it was like the hey, like I belong here, just like you do. I don't even know where you came from.
Speaker 1:Next, to me Exactly, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So for me to assume that everybody in here is like talking about me is like a little bit of a paranoia. So that for me really helped, you know me, see that I did belong. And that's not to discount the times where you know there are forces and people that do work against us, that want to see us feel inferior, you know. But thankfully for me, like that was not one of those times.
Speaker 1:That's good. That's good. Yeah, I love that you were so seen and supported in that space, because it can be such a challenging environment Again when it's like something like social secretary is a highly competitive and sought after role, is it not?
Speaker 2:It's extremely sought after and, for the listeners just also who don't know what that is, the social secretary is in charge of all of the events in 1600 Pennsylvania, so like actually the White House. So everything from private events to public events to large events, and it's very, it's a very social social position that people see. Yeah, high visibility, high stress, high pressure.
Speaker 1:That's a lot. And for you to have stepped into that and just really owned it and again like truly had done it so well, is impressive, and it's one of those things. I think it's like everybody's just you know, a little bit of fake in it till they make it. I always say courage comes after the action, not before, and that being brave is just being afraid of doing it anyway.
Speaker 2:Yes, very much so.
Speaker 1:Because when you get into a room like that, it's like you have to make the most of it and I think that internal narrative of imposter syndrome, you know, I think it sounds like what you did there in that moment was acknowledge that. It was like, okay, that's like that's the voice, that's the doubt, but that doesn't make it the reality.
Speaker 2:Right course. I think that there's that, definitely agree with that. But I think there's also the fact of confusing it with being nervous. Like you know, of course, who's not gonna be nervous walking into the oval office. You know, like that is not something that I, that I've grown up doing, you know what I mean, so I don't know how to do that. So I think that there is the confusion sometimes of, like, the confidence factor with the nerves factor, and if you're nervous about something, it's a natural emotion, it's natural to be, like, scared and nervous. But I think we have to pay attention to it when it starts to seep into our conscious of we're not qualified, we're not talented, we're not worthy nor valued. But it was definitely like a lot of you know, just me sitting there, like not wanting to make any noise, I'm not going to breathe, I'm not going to breathe, I'm supposed to sit here and wait to be called on.
Speaker 1:You know I can totally empathize. One thing I have done with others if I'm coaching and they're nervous about speaking or being in a certain public, you know, environment is I tell them, to tell yourself you're excited not scared because your body physiologically responds the same way when you're excited versus nervous. It's just really just a mindset shift. And then I've noticed that I'm like okay, I'm just excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nervous.
Speaker 1:Just really. I'm really excited about this talk I'm about ready to do.
Speaker 2:I know I seem going to implement that, so thank you it is.
Speaker 1:It is really helped me, you know, step into some situations now not the White House, but, you know, in some situations that has really helped me kind of stay grounded and focused as well, because I think this is what I like about you too, disha is like your authentic voice and personality. It feels like at least having read your book and met you, you're just so true to yourself from beginning to end. It doesn't feel like this huge role and opportunity changed you in any way. Can you give me some? I don't know this is a bonus question from what I sent you, but your thoughts on how maintaining your authenticity or maybe I have it later in the questions and I forgot and I'm getting ahead.
Speaker 1:Here it is. Look at that, I have it right there. Many of our members are navigating careers where they would be the first or the only. It was exactly the next question in their position. What strategies have helped you maintain authentic self while working in highly traditional white houses or white houses? Well, highly traditional environments like the White House?
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely, definitely. And this just means that you're like on point, like your mind is on point with the questions. I'm already on track with the questions. I would say the way that I get prepared is looking number one, looking at my body of work, what I've already done, and saying to myself, like you got through all of these things or situations, or jobs, or tasks, or whatever it is being yourself and you survived, like you succeeded not that it's hard, that that it was easy, but you succeeded, yeah, and so that is proof that you can get through whatever. This is right.
Speaker 2:I think that the other thing is, for me, staying close to community was extremely important. So when you walk inside the white, when you walk inside the White House, you walk inside the gate. You're like on the complex, you know so. You're like behind the gate it's closed, like it's this beautiful space, you know so you kind of sometimes can get shut out from the rest of the world. That's where you work, it's all the time, and so I would always make sure that I like either volunteered or even in my role as social secretary, bought in community groups for, you know, trick or treating or whatever it was to be able to, like, I won't say, see normal people but be connected with my community, because it's so easy to be to keep that distance, especially when you're getting invited to all these fancy things.
Speaker 2:So I think there's that and I think the other thing that was and I probably said this during the book talk too, so you're probably hearing some repetition but, one of the most important things was I had to get used to the fact that not everyone was going to understand me or everyone was going to like me, and I think that once I digested that as nothing personal. But that's just the way we are Like. We look at different people and we're like that personality is not for me, or that person is a little this and it's okay.
Speaker 2:So I had to basically focus on my talent, my worth, my value and the task at hand or the job, versus me saying let me try to change who I am to not make people think about me then.
Speaker 2:therefore, then my my effort towards a job or whatever it was would decrease because I'd be so worried about how I would look. So I think that I had to like and that's probably the hardest one was like accepting that like people were going to talk about me and people were going to say things and I had to be kind of okay with that. As long as I did my job well, I respected people. I had to be okay with like kind of not being like sometimes and it sucks, but I think that's a key to me remaining who I am.
Speaker 1:I love that. That is such fantastic advice and I agree. I'm going to go back to what you said first, which is celebrate the wins. I think so oftentimes we're just like go, go, go right. We never stop and look at the whole of our existence and career and be like holy crap, I have accomplished a lot. I have already done so much I have already survived a lot, you know.
Speaker 1:And then that, going back to that proof time and time again, that's such a great reminder, deesha. And there's something to obviously to likability. You know, there's the likability penalty penalty for women, you know. Studies and research show that they be deemed. They are deemed less likable the higher they go, you know, and that definitely goes for women of color as well. So it's like you've got that double whammy. And then what?
Speaker 1:The point you made I think is so important One, you end up having this like likability exhaustion, right, cause you're constantly changing who you are and not living in your authentic self to make other people happy, which basically kind of just like chips away at your soul, right? Yes, so exhausting. But the point that you made there that was even more important, I think, for a lot of us that are trying to do our jobs and do it well, is that it probably does impact your effectiveness If you were literally just walking around, not doing what needs to be done because you just want to stay liked. You know it's a hard place to be in, but it's a tough place to be.
Speaker 2:It's a tough place to be, and I think that there's always space for us to improve and be better teammates. So there's it's not a. You know, I am who.
Speaker 2:I am kind of a thing because, I did have to adapt, but there was that, like you know, you like to belong, you want to be part of a group, and so sometimes, when you're not, I can see how people are like, well, let me change myself to be more likable, because it's easier. But in the end I could go home and look in the mirror and say that I remained who I was. Or I could look at little black girls that would come to the White House and be like I'm, I'm wearing these earrings, I'm wearing my nose ring, but I'm really good at my job, you know. So, like, does this really matter? Be the example, right?
Speaker 1:no, you are, you were being an incredible model by you know, showing up and being yourself, and I guess I know that's not easy for everybody and others it comes more naturally. But I will say the other side benefit is, I feel like that's how you find your people, you know it's just's, just by being a little bit more yourself, and I agree with you. Don't go out and be an asshole Like nobody wants to work with a jerk.
Speaker 1:You know, be kind to others be respectful, have pride in the work that you do. That's really kind of the minimum. And then, outside of that, it's like, yeah, if you can kind of hold that space for yourself, you're really creating an opportunity and modeling for others.
Speaker 2:So I love it, love it.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about untapped talent, because that's another big focus for you. What are some of the most common barriers you see for organizations that are creating that prevent diverse leadership from thriving?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's so many, but I would say You're like where do we start?
Speaker 1:How much time we got. I'm like.
Speaker 2:I know, when I read this question I was like we even out, we even out. But I would say there's a couple of things. I think that number one we are still a society that values like the highest of degrees at all times and I think that definitely there's a space for education and there's a space for those who have gotten that education, that discipline, and I think that that is admirable. However, experience, I think, also plays a huge part in what people can do. You know, I'm obviously a walking testimony of that that it wasn't. I went to the White House with no degree, you know, and I still was able to climb the ladder. Obviously, I got my associates when I was there. But I think that we value education over experience and I think that we need to level that out a little bit more and that'll open the pool to some talent that, you know, kind of see things in a different perspective because they didn't go through the formal education system, so they might have a better way of doing things right. So I think that there's that.
Speaker 2:I think that we have not grappled with, like, what diversity means and have the benefit of diversity to our work environments or industries, and that's obviously not just race, it's class, it's gender, it's sexual orientation, it is all the things it's like better in status, right, it's disability, it's age. And I think that we have not done the work inside of many C-suites or companies to say let's fix our bias, let's fix, like, what's going on with us before we just pile, you know, more diversity in to be harmed by us not fixing ourselves, you know. I think that there's definitely that. And then I think that we have to go outside of our. You know, if I work somewhere, I want my friends to be hired there too, especially my friends working for a job. I'm like, let me call my friend, you know.
Speaker 2:But I think that we have to look outside of our friend groups and outside of our associations for talent Like you know, I, I shouldn't be hiring all of my friends you know what I mean. Like it's all that we think the same we. I want different opinions and different thoughts, and so I think that that's another, you know. And then just the exposure. I mean like where are these jobs getting posted?
Speaker 1:are they even?
Speaker 2:real some of these jobs oh my gosh you know, like you know what's the exposure just to these top jobs, like helping people get in their foot in the door, you know, is what I really try to do. You know I can boost up your resume, your application, your name. The rest is up to you you know, but just getting somebody helping them get their foot in the door, I think is really important too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I love it. You started with the right point of like. We have to fix the problem where it lies, which is at the top, and I think that's one thing. For as much as I love, you know, the ERGs that have emerged over the last few years. I was a part of one before they were even called ERGs. I was helping to create one at an agency I worked at and even at the time it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I'm like why do I marginalized person in the office who didn't create this problem, have to create the safe space and address and fix the problems and educate all the people on the problem and not get paid to do it?
Speaker 2:yeah, there we go, there we go, I mean, and you care about it as an individual, of course, and so you're gonna pour all you can into it, and then next thing you know, you're like wait a minute yeah, that's exactly why I'm here.
Speaker 1:It is exactly exactly why I'm here. I was a Together Digital member, first joined the community while I was at that agency because it was just really hard to really find true diversity and have what felt like safe conversations. I had to go outside the four walls of my company to do that.
Speaker 1:And luckily for me, my company was in agreeance and they supported and sponsored me as a member for many years, and so, yeah, it is really. I think it is one of those things that has to start at the top. The other thing that you mentioned I think that is important, I keep hearing it over and over again is that people need to be a culture add, not a culture fit, so we don't fall into the group thing, and it's not about everybody thinking alike, but adding two.
Speaker 1:And then another point you made it's so great that job descriptions like if you have any hand in helping writing those, I think, really looking at them and making sure that they aren't, you know, ableist, that they're not sexist, that they're not, you know, really written in a way that might actually discourage somebody who doesn't have a four-year degree, for example, even to apply like make it, you know, make it specific about the job. But you're right, lived experience, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean I went to college for four years and studied advertising design, but I've been in the industry for four times as long you know, you know how much I learned, yeah, and they even just I always say like even just if somebody's you know a secretary and their assistant in a place, like it's still like the exposure to you know, whatever industry and whatever field and sector. And I think at a time where we're talking about you know, we're worried about the work talent pipeline you know, it's just like well, like you know, it's drying up here.
Speaker 2:If you know, if we don't, we don't have some people. Some, right, you know some. You know it's drying up here. If you know, if we don't, we don't have some people some you know some untapped talent.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there's a lot out there, yeah, and I think for those who are that kind of in that position of feeling like they're untapped talent, I do really think it is a lot of looking at the whole of your experience, I think that was interesting to you. Again, y'all got to go get the book, but you talk about, like, your upbringing and your involvement in the community and advocacy and all of those things, and so it wasn't even about ever getting that four year degree. It was every, every volunteer activity, every extracurricular activity that you had from a young age that really helped prepare you to do the job that you end up getting to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Amy, and I think you can probably assess this I'm sure you did not, like 10 years ago, say I'm going to run this podcast, you know. But I think you can probably attest to this, because I'm sure you did not, like 10 years ago, say I'm going to run this podcast, you know. But I think that that's why staying true to yourself and what you love is so important, because you think that, like this is not going to, you know, I don't know how this is going to benefit me in the future or if it even will. So I think we've gotten to a space where we look at everything that we do as like can I monetize this, can I use this in network? And I'm not discouraging that ever, but let's not forget about our creativity and curiosity and just our basic love for things.
Speaker 2:And I think for me, going along, like you know, being a hip hop journalist and that was because I really wanted to write about women in the culture and I was like I'm so sick of women being just like, oh, we're just dancers and videos.
Speaker 2:I'm like, no, there's like women producers and rappers and artists, graffiti artists that should be held up. And so I started writing about them Right and then fast forward to the White House, where it was like this job, where was my role to bring in, like culture, you know, and music, and I'm like I never thought back then. I was like I'm doing this, so this can benefit me years later. So I think that we have to remember our hobbies and our creativity and our curiosity of what we love to do and I feel like I really do truly feel like things do align, you know. You just don't know when, you don't know how, but things do align and so that's another, that's another, you know, you know, making the case for staying true to what you love and who you are got to go another year at this other agency.
Speaker 1:That's when we started the ERG and you're so right, like I just kind of followed that passion of championing and advocating for women, because up to that point I had a lot of privilege, I didn't really recognize and realize like I had a lot of great male allies and advocates, you know, and because of that I was able to move through the ranks of agencies and get to creative director at a fairly decent age, you know, considering I actually took a year gap from school, went back to school and then actually took another year hiatus because of moving to outside of the country and just doing freelance jobs while I was there.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean it really is the summation of your whole of experience and really following your passions that helps you find your purpose and opportunities to the point that, like you was I mean I didn't expect it was standing in the hallway of our national conference for together digital. Ironically, the founder ran for congress just one time. She didn't, she didn't make it, but she tried. Um, the goal was to kind of not win, kind of lay the groundwork and then come back and run again. But it was a lot for her, learned a lot about, learned a lot about running for political office. Uh, yeah and gently yes, it sure is.
Speaker 1:And so, anyways, in that process I was like, okay, that's great, you're gonna run for congress, but what about our community? What about this business? She's like you run it, like you've been running our cincinnati chapter. You want to run a business, do it. I was like what you want? So you're right. I, five, ten years ago, if you would have told me I'd be running a company and doing podcasts and talking to amazing women like you, I'd have been like that sounds awesome.
Speaker 2:And highly unlikely.
Speaker 1:But again, yeah, following your passion, staying true to yourself. Both of us, hopefully for our listeners, are serving, as you know, we're not, we're not, we're not special cases guys. There's more like us out there. We just got to talk about it more yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that it also excites me because I'm excited to see what else I could do. You know, I think that when I left the White House, everybody was like what's next?
Speaker 1:What's next?
Speaker 2:I'm like sleep, but then also just like I don't know, and that's like exciting and terrifying at the same time. But it's like like I know I'm going to work and I'm going to do this, but what else is going to come? And to me that's exciting that I get to be that curious.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Let's talk about that next phase and next chapter. So you're the founder and CEO of Hook Fasten. How do you help companies move beyond performative commitments to equity and create meaningful, sustainable change, especially in times like these?
Speaker 2:Yes, meaningful, sustainable change, especially in times like these. Yes, I think you know the way that we do it. I just again going back to what I love and what I've always done is really be in community. So I think that, for us, what we do with companies is that we say you know, what are you passionate about, what are your employees passionate about? Or what's your industry Like, what you know, what products do you have and how can we get that to communities in a way that is going to either eliminate a need food hunger, housing, whatever it is or alleviate a need right. And so we serve as a liaison, like the corporate social responsibility consultants right, we serve as that between the corporations and the organizations. Sense, right, we serve as that between the corporations and the organizations. And I think that too often times, when we do community work and we love it and I think that our hearts are very well intentioned most people they don't ask the community what do you need?
Speaker 1:How can we help?
Speaker 2:You know if we're asking you to come in and brainstorm on something. Are you getting paid for that, you know? Do you have something that we can just enhance that? And so right now, you know, while the world is really on a very much axis is like tipped over in many ways. Right, we are very focusing on, you know, the essentials, you know, people being able to eat, being able to be housed, mm-hmm employment, and so we're getting companies now pour into, like local food banks, right, and local housing and give vouchers and things like that, because we're trying to show that, yes, you know, politics is politics, but we all agree that people deserve food and they deserve housing, right.
Speaker 2:So if we can take a corporation and say, let's create something where you're able to partner with the local food banks in your area to, like, help with the deficit they just experienced, with the shortage, we're not asking you to get political or make comments, we're asking you just to help feed people, and so that is what we create. We create the strategy, the campaign, um, we execute it, um, or sometimes we just advise on it too. People just kind of need that. So that's what we do and and, and you know, I, I love it, I hate the work like right. I love it because I love what I get to do.
Speaker 1:But I hate that. I have to do it Right, exactly. Yeah, I say that a lot of times too. My daughter will ask me mom, do you think I'll run together digital when I'm older? Affinity groups, because everything's fine and everything's good.
Speaker 1:But yeah at the rate we're going, probably not. So yeah sure, If you want to run it, it's yours. Darling, I love that you make such a great point. You think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right, and there's like that whole self-actualization portion that's at the top. But that's really only something you can start to work into until you've had those basic needs met and so kind of the shift. I don't say downshifting, but downshifting almost to get into that part of like people's needs to me anyways, is more effective.
Speaker 1:I'll say from, like, a marketing community standpoint. I think it's been a long held conversation for us, more than I think even the recent year or two has shown that. You know a lot of companies that are, you know, saying they're doing diversity efforts. It's like you're not truly having impact or looking at the numbers or changing the numbers. It's like let's slap up something on our website, let's put up something on our social media and while I want to, still, I would still like to see I know a lot of our community would still like to see businesses supporting diversity, equity and inclusion at the same time. It's like, okay, well, if we can't all find a way to agree on that, can equity and inclusion at the same time? It's like, okay, well, if we can't all find a way to agree on that, can we at least? I love this, like you, like you said, can we at least agree people need food and housing, and can we put?
Speaker 1:some impact there. Can we help with education? So that we are training up a new workforce so that we do have diverse you know folks to hire from things like that. I think it's. It's an amazing way to continue to create impact in what feels like a hard time to you. Know, really do what you need to do to make an impact, so thank you for the work you're doing there. I'm so glad that's the direction you chose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I, and I love it, and I think that, even when it comes to what you were speaking of about diversity and stuff, you know, when we do things like you know, scholarship programs or mentorship programs between communities and organizations or schools, you know, one of my first things is what work have you done as a company or what can we help you with to make sure that this is a safe environment for that student that you want to bring in? You know, because, again, I don't want to just generate the wheel of like we've got these scholars and you're like right, but if they had a bad experience, you know or they were treated this?
Speaker 2:way, then, you know, do we do our job? And so we have to ask that question beforehand about the work that's being done, you know, in order to start to bring some of these young students or, you know, career, second career people into the workplace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's so important too, and I mean eventually businesses are going to catch up because that work pool that talent that's coming in. They care about those things. They're paying attention, and if it doesn't? Feel like a safe space for them. They're more than happy to leave.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, they are an outspoken generation coming up, and so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it. All right. So let's shift back to the book a little bit. The title is Undiplomatic and it suggests breaking from conventions. What aspects of traditional leadership do you think we need to leave behind to create more inclusive spaces? I mean, that's kind of a nice segue from our last bit of conversation.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that what we need to leave behind is that everybody has to come the same way for it to success.
Speaker 2:And that's not just the education route that I'm speaking of, but even like this mentality of you know, I suffered, or not even suffered, I went through, you know, three rounds of this, and so you have to do it too, to get where I get.
Speaker 2:Or you know I had to deal with, you know, like you know, being a junior associate for five years, so you have to deal with that too. So I think that we need to leave behind the fact that, like you have to, you have to have, like this really rough route, like for me I think of you know, I don't want you to have it as hard as I did, like I would like, I would like to leave it easier for you. That doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean that like you get off scot-free or like you don't do anything, you cut corners, but it's just like, why should you have to deal with all this? Like I'm trying to make this easier for you. So there's other battles. So I think, some of those, those, those not just the education, but also, like you know, I walk five miles in the snow, so you have to do that too in order to be strong in your life.
Speaker 2:I think I can get stronger the way. So I think that's one thing I think we definitely should leave behind. And then I think that we should leave behind, like, the systems of how people get promotions and people become leaders. Even I mean, it's archaic, it's not a lot of times based in marriage, it's a lot of it's based in you've been here for 10 years, you know, but it's just like right. But if somebody has been here for eight years but they're really good and maybe didn't make any, you know like are we? Can we look at that a little bit? So I think that the way we do promotions into leadership, um, and then the way we recruit to the c-suite, I think can definitely be left behind. I have big gripes about, just like you know, we. I feel like sometimes we don't really move people up, we just move people around sometimes like like we need to move people up to new perspectives versus moving just the same people around.
Speaker 2:So those are some things I think of when you ask that.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah, I think that's so great and you're right, like I don't know why there seems to be this sense of like an initiation. This isn't the army. We're not like you know, we're not getting in and fighting battles and wars and things like that? Hopefully not, but like I don't even see that among other women Right.
Speaker 2:Where.
Speaker 1:I hate to say it. This is my call to you. Know all of our women. It's interesting together digital. Our members skew a little older, so 35 is our median age, but we've got a lot of active members that are in their fifties and even in their sixties. Membership because, I have women that are like I'm on a fixed income, I still want to come to the community. I want to be a part of community.
Speaker 2:I was like absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so they get the student rate, cause it's like you're a student again, but it's in a whole different way. But, I've heard women say you know well, I didn't have anybody to mentor me or I didn't have anybody explain all this to me. I had to get the, I had to work hard to get here, so other women. So this is my call to you that that's not, that's really not the way it needs to be, I love what you said.
Speaker 1:I was like doing my little praise hands, as you were saying. I want to make it easier for the people that are coming up behind me and I think that's such a great, great mindset. I think that's a mindset we all need to share I love it. All right. So you've worked at the intersection of public service and social impact. How do you see the relationship between corporate responsibility and equity evolving over the coming years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's interesting because when I think about equity and I think about to me how simple it should be that if you have something, the person next to you should also have something, and it boggles me that people argue about that or have issues with that. But I think a lot of that's power dynamics, like rooted, you know, and just I want to be powerful and I, you know, a lot of it's power and ego and many other things that many women have experienced, and ego and many other things that many women have experienced. But I do see the fact that, you know, our empathy is wrapped up in equity. Like you know, we should want somebody to have food and food choices right. We should want somebody to be able to house themselves and we're not talking about, you know, the bottom of the barrel here, like we shouldn't be like well, you know you have something, you know you have this meal and we know it's not healthy for you, but at least you have something you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean. So I think that I look at it like corporations have the assets, whether it's, you know, products, whether it's funds, whether it's time, whether it's services or resources, whatever it is, to be able to even that out like right, like we. We can't ask non-profits to continue doing it with the funding cuts and so many other things and then them not making enough money to even you know a lot of them don't make a lot of money so they're, they have a high turnover but I see them working together.
Speaker 2:it's saying that like we just we we know and believe that you deserve what we have on our tables, you deserve the house that we have, and to make that happen, we can make that happen. And I think that if businesses work together, you know we can solve it. You know there shouldn't be a housing crisis. There shouldn't be. You know, a food crisis. There shouldn't be these things. There is right and there's people who are working to. You know, mitigate that. But for me, on my end, I'm like, well, I need to figure out the person that needs to eat right today, like right now, like what's for dinner, like we can work on the policy, but what's for dinner? And I think that corporations, without again getting into policy and politics, can have really, really, really, really important things in that Agreed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it is. It always baffled me as well. I don't know. It's one of those things where it's like just because somebody else has doesn't mean I have less. Yes, it just means that everybody moves forward. It's like the economic empowerment or the opportunity to empower people you know us all economically only just makes our whole economy stronger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so weird.
Speaker 1:It's like that's just really how economics works, I don't know. It's like why doesn't it make sense, right, and I think that a lot of us too.
Speaker 2:it's just like I'm happy, like, please, like you know, I hope that you can get the same things I have, or even more, like I think that it is a power thing where I don't have that in me and I don't know if it's how I grew up or whatever, but I don't have it in me to feel that way, that to feel that if you have something that I, that you know, that you know, somehow I'm threatened by your existence or your you know, the fact that you can eat, right, I don't get it. But I think that's a classism thing, that we've got to work on definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I would go down a rabbit hole there too, for sure, if any of you guys haven't read the book cast. Check that one out. That's like I'm going to talk about those social class dynamics and how it is really truly across all, all different types of societies. So, yeah, all right. So many of our members and listeners are working to create impact in what feels like uncertain times. What are some things that anchor your approach to creating meaningful change when you're facing obstacles?
Speaker 1:I know you alluded to a couple, but I wasn't sure if you had any other good examples.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think what I would say I mean, in addition to a couple of things I said but I think that, like hobbies I know this is something, but like remembering you know who I was as a child and the things I loved to do back then um, I think are just so important to me because it gets me in touch with, like the Disha.
Speaker 2:Before, you know, I had to start paying bills, and before, like, I could digest the news, and before social media, it's like, oh yeah, I remember who I was before, that like this person, just like to explore. And I think that getting in touch with that kind of like takes you back to a more innocent time when you weren't like, we all are influenced by different things every day, all the time, and so I say that for people to really lean into their hobbies they're not frivolous and you're not wasting time and all these things You're getting in touch with who you were before that and I think that that's extremely important. And I think the other thing, um, which I love, is like getting enough sleep. You know, I'm sure, like the women listening, probably, who are especially over 40 like like we used to be able to stay up. That's not an option, nope 9, 30.
Speaker 2:It's just done right or like we'll be able to like go, you know, like stay up and then we'll be. We used to be like we're fine the next day. Now I'm, I'm, it's not, I'm not pleasant, like I need to sleep, I need to lay down Like I need to. So I think that that's like really important and vital, you know, as we get older, to make sure we take care of our bodies in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. Actually, that's our book for April. So, members, if you're listening, you still got about 10 days before we do our next book discussion. We're talking about. Sacred rest is this month's book and theme. So, yeah, and there's even a quiz you can take to learn about what kind of rest you need, because there's obviously different forms beyond just sleep. But to be aware of that and I love what what you said, it made me think about what I'm always telling myself. It's like how, in a moment when I'm feeling stressed, I'm like how would I, how would I make eight-year-old Amy happy?
Speaker 1:right, now, yes, is it gonna go and get ice cream? Is it gonna go for a walk in the woods? Is it gonna be sitting down and coloring like yeah that's kind of how I ended up finding, like my way back to my hobbies and things that I enjoyed was like exactly what you said, Deesha. It was just I thought back to a time and an age when social conditioning had not got a hold of me yet.
Speaker 1:And I just liked what I liked, and so that's, that's a good way to kind of a good measure to get back to and figure out what it is that you love doing, before the world really interfered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent, and it's like the saying goes with that 100%. And it's like the saying goes with that and I say hear that saying and be like. What does that even mean? But now it makes so much sense, right exactly.
Speaker 1:All right, we've got a couple questions left that life listeners. Don't be shy. You're more than welcome to drop questions into the chat if you have them. We'd love to hear from you if you have any questions for Disha. Looking at your career journey, disha, what is a one commonly held belief about professional advancement that you've completely changed your mind about?
Speaker 2:I think what I would say to this is I think I changed my mind that everybody else is smarter than me and that's why they've gotten farther than me in different ways. I think I've definitely changed my mind about that, because now I know that's not true. Like I believe that there are definitely people smarter than me 100%, and that's fine. I think that a lot of it's opportunity and a lot of it's chance and a lot of it's confidence about going for something. So I would say that one of my the biggest thing that I think is that everyone else is smarter than me and that's why they've all moved up or that's why they're in the position that they are. But a lot of times it's really like opportunity and who you know exactly.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's why I'm writing and talking a lot about the networking gap because I think it is.
Speaker 1:it's a deficit for women in the sense that, you know, networking is not necessarily, you know, wasn't built with women in mind. It's a bit archaic in the ways in which we do it. It doesn't encourage you to often be authentic. It was really funny. I was actually at a university doing a talk to the PRSSA, so public relations student group, and I gave them one tip and we were talking a bit about how do you start conversation when you feel anxious and nervous, and the gal, one of my friends, who was speaking with me, talked about how, you know, she loves to compliment people on what they're wearing, but as I looked out at the audience like I'll even all these kids right, college kids, blue and white and black, and it was the color palette.
Speaker 1:I wore this subconsciously I was at OSU, by the way big old red dress. I didn't even think about it. I got there I was like why do I do these things?
Speaker 2:and I really do.
Speaker 1:I'll sometimes like one time I showed up to present a deck for somebody as an emcee and I literally the shirt I picked out matched the deck. It just is that stuck in my mind. And I saw the shirt while I was out. I was like I love that shirt, I'm buying that for that event. And then I show up. They're like Amy, do you realize, your shirt matches the presentation, but for me right.
Speaker 1:So this is my tip. There is like I like. By the way, I'm not sure if it's a dress or like a blouse, but I love your top. Thank you.
Speaker 2:It's gorgeous, I love it.
Speaker 1:And so, like for me, when I go out, you know, I honestly try to stick out a little bit you know, by with some wearing something, to give people the opportunity to strike up conversation and comment about something I'm wearing, because those are the people I find too, and she was like my friend Bridget was like I never thought about that, but yeah, networking as a whole and you know, really, I mean there's so many, so many guys out there on the golf course right now shaking hands, making deals that you know are making them billions of dollars.
Speaker 1:It's like how do we shift that dynamic to where we make networking more accessible and equitable for all? So that we all can be in the presence of opportunity Because, like both you and I, again, we're, you know, offered those opportunities. And I do agree too that, like I think, that sense of us as women having to feel like we're never smart enough I mean, I love my ladies year are together digital group. They're here because they are constant learners.
Speaker 1:And I think that's good. I think it's a part of who they are, but I also do think a part of it is what you're saying. It's like we never. How many certifications can I get? How?
Speaker 2:many degrees can I?
Speaker 1:get Like, because what is it going to take for me to kind of move up? And again in the research for my book on the networking gap. Education does not close the pay gap.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, ladies. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's unfortunate, not to say you should ever stop learning you too, but at the same time. You know it's really not getting us further faster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I will say that I don't know if you remember but there like a couple years ago, I think, when I was at the White House.
Speaker 1:There was this whole thing around women should learn how to golf you know, because, oh yeah, I flipped some tables over that, so it was just like OK, like Conform.
Speaker 2:Now I have to like spend money.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, like I was just like no, I don't, I'm not going to do that, but I got that advice often. Yeah, like you should learn how to golf.
Speaker 1:Right advice, often Like you should learn how to golf Right, and it's so inaccessible from a financial standpoint, from like an ability standpoint, you know there's so many reasons why it might not. Not that I have anything against golf, don't get me wrong. I like it, I don't mind it, I play it with family for fun, but yeah, it is kind of the. I remember reading that article and it's cited in my book and I'm like are you kidding me? You're like women just conform and do what the men are doing and that way that's how you move up.
Speaker 2:It's like yeah, is that the way it should be, though? Yeah, exactly yeah. That's why we're here, right?
Speaker 1:We're doing right, right. One more question before we go into the power around, which are fun, fast questions for those in our community who feel that they're on a non-traditional path, which actually in digital and marketing, is very common. What advice do you give about leveraging their unique perspective and leadership strengths?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first thing I would say is like believe in yourself and your ability and your work. Like, I feel like you could take as many classes as you want, you could do as many networking events as you want, you can build the most amazing portfolio, but if you don't believe in the product you're standing behind or the person that you see in the mirror, you can't keep up the facade for long, like before somebody is going to notice or you're going to crack right. So I would say to believe in your abilities and believe in your talent, even if it doesn't look like somebody else's. Which leads me to the second one of comparing. Like I get it, like I get it.
Speaker 2:I compare myself to people. Still, my book came out and I was like am I going to sell as much as this person? Am I going to hit this list? I completely understand that, but what I would say is remember that you are one of one. So your perspective, your talent, all of those things nobody else is going to bring, which means that your path is going to look different to someone else's and I know we all hear it, but I'm going to reiterate that you don't know what people have.
Speaker 2:Going on, I look at the bestseller list and I found out like people were able to buy thousands of their books or whatever. And I'm like, oh my goodness, why didn't I, you know? But I'm like, but I needed that money.
Speaker 1:Like I couldn't.
Speaker 2:I couldn't do that. I needed that money for other things, right? So watch a comparing because, especially with social media and everything nowadays, like things look way easier than what they are, um, and also just know that like your life doesn't have to be supersized like for real, for real like you know, like I'm starting to learn that I love the simple things as we talked about earlier.
Speaker 2:You know, going for a walk in the woods, just listening to some music, like going and sitting by myself and journaling at a coffee shop, like that's okay, like we don't have to have a curated life, like it's about being healthy, being happy and believing that you know that you're one of one and that you are, you know you're worthy of everything that comes to you. And then don't, don't be afraid of no's. Y'all Like I know it's hard. I hate hearing no. It's so devastating to me when somebody's like no, thank you, and I'm like what? Or like you know you're really great but. And I'm like but wait a minute, I work for Barack Obama. Why, right, you know. But I have to take it on the chin like everybody else and say, okay, that was just a circumstance, it's no indication of my value or worth. I just didn't, I just didn't get it. So know the difference in that too, that it says sometimes it's just circumstance, it's not you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I think. Yeah, that's great advice for our job seekers out there right now too. I hear that a lot. Like you even said something earlier like is that job posting even real, because there are a lot of people fishing out there for like to build their bench but not actually hiring? Is that, when you know being on the opposite side and looking for and hiring talent? I mean I can tell you like we are a small business, we have like three, four people with us at any given time and you know we post up a job and I got like 700 resumes in two days. I had to turn the job posting off because I couldn't. I'm like, how am I going to go through all these? How?
Speaker 2:am I going to?
Speaker 1:respond to each of these individuals. So you know. Whether it's a small company, big company, you kind of never know. And I know on the recruiting side people are cutting down on that on the staff there, so it might be one person getting thousands you know, so really just know that yeah, there's not always you.
Speaker 1:It could be definitely a them thing, and I wholeheartedly agree with you too. One of my common phrases is you know, companion, and it's, it's. It's out there in the world too. Somebody else can take credit for it, cause I don't know who said it first. But comparison is the thief of joy, you know, it's just, it keeps. It can be such a a vacuum for your emotions, and if you find yourself getting jealous or envious. Another thing I like to remind myself is that envy is something you should actually pay attention to, because it's showing you what you want.
Speaker 2:Maybe the things that you're denying yourself and not recognizing for yourself, even if it's kind of vain or kind of like whatever.
Speaker 1:It's telling you that there's something out there that you want and you need to figure out how to get it for yourself yeah, and you're allowed to like, you're allowed to want more too.
Speaker 2:Like you're allowed to want more, you're allowed to splurge on, you're allowed to do these things and I think that we just think that we have to stay in a neat, tidy box until somebody unwraps it and lets us out you know now.
Speaker 1:Don't wait for permission, ladies, no, or? Guys if you're listening and you need to hear it yeah, that's my next book too. I keep joking is unambitious. I think our generation especially has been conditioned to be like we're just work workaholics. Man, you know, let's get the degree, get the house, get the family all of this.
Speaker 1:And then it's like what, why am I doing all this? And we're all having these quarter midlife crisis induced by, like the world and society in general as well, and it's it's I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we are constantly striving, and it's always about how do I do better, better, better, better, better, instead of just being.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going off of the on. I just realized that you're undiplomatic.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:All right, let's see. Oh, that was our last question there in our chats Quiet, so I'm going to move into the power rounds question. So what is a one leadership quality that you wish was taught in every classroom?
Speaker 2:Feedback. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. That is a fantastic one. Yeah, that's a tough one, but yeah, fantastic. Most unexpected object in your office that inspires your work. Most unexpected object in your office that inspires your work.
Speaker 2:I know you're not in your office right now because you're trying. No, no, but I, but I, there's an answer to this. I would say there's a poster of the Philadelphia sports teams. Nice, I love it. Yeah, I would say that that's great and that aligns.
Speaker 1:That's very authentically, you, deesha. Yes, yes, very much so very much so and, on that note, we're going to infuse two of your passions authentic leadership and jazz, because I wanted you to finish the sentence or you could say R&B. Authentic leadership is like jazz, because it's unpredictable and ever-evolving. Yeah, I kind of like jazz too, because it's like you got that whole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah ever evolving, and I think about like the jazz of like the 30s, 20s and 30s and the jazz of today, like it's ever evolving.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's a fantastic answer. What is the first thing you do when imposter syndrome tries to creep back in? I?
Speaker 2:meditate, love it um or pray if people believe in that. But I would say meditate or pray.
Speaker 1:That's so great, awesome. All right, disha, that was it. You flew through those Great job. Thank you so much for joining us, thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. All of your insights on non-traditional leadership paths and creating authentic impact are so valuable for communities like ours, so I appreciate you being here with us again and for our amazing listeners. They're dropping in and saying this was awesome, so thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1:Ellen for listening in For everyone watching. Remember that the Power Launch recordings are available to everyone free after the event. You can check us out on YouTube. You can also basically follow and subscribe any place that you listen to your podcasts. And if you're not a Together Digital member yet, I invite you to join our community of amazing, smart, talented and very generous women in digital who are always looking to share their knowledge, power and connections. Again, togetherindigitalcom, if you want to check that out and learn more about our amazing membership benefits.
Speaker 1:Outside of just really finding your professional soulmates that just really transition. Any and every job yeah, I'm like every, every stage of life. Check it out, girlfriend. We've got. Yeah, I'll send you the details. Missy Pamela, oh, we're getting all kinds of love in the chat, so I want to make sure you see that before we hop off here. Adisha, all right, thank you all again for listening. We hope to see you all next week on the Power Lounge. Until then, everyone keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
