Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
The Retail Media Revolution
Welcome to The Power Lounge. Host Amy Vaughan speaks with Deanna Behrens, VML’s Director of Media and Strategy and a leader in retail media. Deanna has launched strategies across seven major retailers, shaping the future of the industry.
Together, Amy and Deanna explore how brands and retailers are transforming consumer connections through data-driven, consumer-focused methods and technologies like QR codes and AI. Deanna shares her journey from traditional media to the dynamic field of retail, highlighting the importance of adaptability and innovation.
This episode offers valuable insights for marketers, business owners, and anyone interested in the future of commerce, providing practical advice and real-world examples to thrive in today’s retail landscape. Tune in to The Power Lounge to learn from Deanna’s expertise and industry perspectives.
Deanna Behrens is a marketing strategist with extensive experience in the consumer-packaged goods sector. As Director of Media and Strategy, she leads marketing initiatives that drive results, focusing on commerce intelligence for retail media across seven leading retailers. Deanna is dedicated to empowering teams and advancing the future of retail media.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:10 - Retail Media Strategy Insights
04:15 - Agility in Retail Media Evolution
07:23 - Unplanned Purchases via Impulse Marketing
11:16 - "Brand Visibility Over Awareness"
13:10 - Brand Authenticity Foundations
19:40 - "DTC Impact on Retail Strategy"
20:35 - "D2C Innovation vs. Brand Caution"
25:01 - Consistent Branding Across Retailers
27:56 - "Adapting Media Math for ROAS"
32:16 - Ad Spend Evaluation Challenges
33:05 - Aiming for Standardized Metrics
38:27 - Leveraging Data and AI Insights
42:41 - Purchase Influence Through Repeated Exposure
43:14 - Marketing Synergy Across Retail Channels
48:48 - Marketing Support Podcast for Small Businesses
50:35 - Aligning First Party and RMN Data
53:16 - Evolving Media Strategies
56:32 - Shopper Marketing Resources
59:01 - Community Support Advantage
01:00:41 - Outro
Quotes:
"Create opportunities when you can. Often, we doubt our potential, but embracing uncertainty leads to growth and magic."- Amy Vaughan
"Stay agile and curious. Embrace ambiguity and new challenges to unlock possibilities and drive innovation."-Deanna Behrens
Key Takeaways:
Embrace Agility and Curiosity
Consumer-Centric is Non-Negotiable
Partnerships Are Evolving
Test, Learn, and Innovate—Continuously
Data Is Your Power Tool (But Ask the Right Questions)
Brand Consistency, Local Nuance
Small Brands, Big Potential
Lifelong Learning & Community
Connect with Deanna Behrens:
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/deannabehrens
Website:https://www.vml.com/
Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast:https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/
Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by visitinghttps://togetherindigital.com
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power Lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigitalcom, and today we are diving deep into the dynamic oh so many D's into the dynamic world of media, retail, of retail media, with a true industry innovator, deanna Behrens. Did I say that right? Deanna Behrens? Behrens, I said it right. Director of Media and Strategy at VML, brings an extensive experience in the CPG space and has pioneered retail media strategies across seven major retailers. What makes Deanna's perspective particularly valuable is her unique ability to translate commerce intelligence into actionable strategies that deliver results. I mean, she's not just witnessing the retail media revolution, she is actively shaping it and we are thrilled to have her to share her insights with our community today.
Speaker 1:Welcome, dina. Thank you, I appreciate it. Yes, it's so good to have you here with us. You are local here in Cincinnati, right where I'm also recording from, and we've had you come and speak right with our local into and let you meet our entire group of members from across the world. Really, we're kind of growing and we've got people popping up in different countries too, so holla to all of our friends who are listening with us live today. Remember, you're always welcome to jump into the chat, ask your questions. This is for you. We want to know what you want to hear. Obviously, we have some great questions for Dina, but at the end of the day, we want to make sure you get what you want out of this conversation, all right? So before we dive into all the fun media trends, dina, I would love to hear more about your journey and becoming the director of media and strategy at VML and what experiences helped to shape your approach to navigating the CPG and retail space.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I started off my career on the media side and really learning like the traditional, which was a great foundation. Um really got in the forefront of what digital is today. Um, it's so drastically different than when I started Um. But I still remember I walked into one of my roles with Perfetti Van Melle, so Mentos, um, and in that role my boss was like you're going to run the shopper marketing for Mentos and Airhead.
Speaker 2:And I'm like what is shopper marketing? I have no idea what you're talking about. And so I was like cool, what does that mean? And he's like go to the path to purchase, institute one of the conferences, you'll figure it out. I was like cool. So I went and at the time there was not many retail media networks. It was literally like hey, how can we get people to think about going in store to buy the product? And so with Mentos, if you think about it, they're selling a lot of their products and convenience stores they're also selling it in mass and they're selling it in grocery. So here I am trying to figure out how do I get people at the different moments, because I mean, if I'm going to advertise in value chain versus, you know, a C store. It's so drastically different and how you approach it, how you look at it. And then, to make things even more complicated, they decided they wanted an overarching approach, to add airheads into the mix and airheads and Mentos are two very different
Speaker 2:products and two very different audiences, but we were able to figure out a amazing program that we were able to put to the forefront. We're able to kind of figure out the nuances between all of them. I was introduced to News America at the time, which is now Neptune. It's so fun to see how things have evolved and changed over the years.
Speaker 2:Um got my first introduction to um dun humby, which is now 8451 um, and working with that and trying to have those conversations with the brand team at the early stage, like hey, you're actually moving the needle and getting conversions at store.
Speaker 2:I need you to put money into kroger but not put money into your national advertising, which of course he was more passionate about because he's helping to build the ad and getting it out there and it's more of an awareness driver. And so seeing that from the early stages really kind of shaped what I was doing, because when I left the industry for a couple of years and then came back, we had retail media networks and I'm like now, what is this Now, what's happening? And it drastically changed and it's evolved over time and we'll get to a little bit of that. But, like COVID definitely made it fast moving, changed it for everyone. And I think the biggest thing that I've learned on my journey is you need to be agile, you need to ask the questions, be curious, be willing to be challenged, and that will help you get further in your career. And just embracing that gray area, because if I looked at my boss and said no, I would never be, able to uncover the different things and unlock all the different things.
Speaker 2:That got me to where I am today.
Speaker 1:I love that and thank you for sharing that story and experience. I think it points out a couple of really important things for, I think, our listeners is that if you're in a position of to give opportunity like give it the fact that he pulled you aside and was like this is the thing you're going to go for, like that opportunity opened up an entirely new career path for you, right, and here you are doing it for so many important brands, so opportunity is huge. Also, your willingness to push aside the self-doubt. I'm sure that we all feel right and say I am going to roll up my sleeves and I'm going to learn and I'm going to grow. So you pointed out flexibility and, really, I think too, embracing uncertainty, right. How many times do we let good potential opportunities go by because we just don't think we're quite enough yet?
Speaker 1:I love, love, love that you like stepped up into it and you've run with it and now you know here you are. So yeah, as you mentioned, you know, retail media. It's it's kind of been a slow rolling, but it really started coming on the scene, you know in 2010,. A slow rolling, but it really started coming on the scene. You know in 2010, the 2010s, whatever we call those right From your perspective, at the forefront of this evolution, what fundamental shifts have you witnessed that?
Speaker 2:marketers need to understand or could understand better. I think the biggest thing that a lot of people are starting to really see as RMNs really come into the play is it's not and I kind of alluded to this with my example of the national ads versus the localized retailer specific ads. It's all about like, how do I reach that consumer? What is that consumer playground? Where is the most interactive place they interact with? What is that consumer journey and how do I reach them? It's not like hey, brand is now awareness and then retail media is conversion and consideration. It's not that anymore.
Speaker 2:It's all very fluid and I think COVID really streamlined that and really pushed that forward. And if you think about it today, like, I have used this so many times but I can be sitting there watching a TV show and then all of a sudden my TV is blown up and all the way around it has a QR code and I'm buying the product that I had no intent when I sat down or even thought about buying and I've bought it now because it happened to be popped up or it could be when I'm even scrolling and standing in line. You know, waiting for a concert like 100% buy something while I'm standing in line, like it is so fluid and so changing that, if you aren't willing to understand that journey, willing to kind of make those divides and being flexible. I think that is something that is really, really missed and something that we have to be very cognizant of as we're being more marketers. It's definitely consumer centric versus a sales focused anymore. Sure, it's all about the consumer and what the consumer needs.
Speaker 1:Finally, I just feel like that's like been a drum We've been beating some of us for a very long time of like what does the consumer want? What does the consumer need? They drive purchase, but we can't just sell them to that like to them. They need to know what they're like, why they're buying what they're buying when they're buying it. To your point, right and I think that is another funny thing just within the digital marketing space. I just laugh about QR codes. Man, how long we've been talking about QR codes?
Speaker 2:I remember, like when I was at Jaquita and I was like, well, let's put a QR code on the banana, and it did not work at all. And now it'd be like, yeah, let's do it, it'll totally work. People use it all the time.
Speaker 1:Everybody gets it Well and it took a couple of things right. It took, I think, covid right Because restaurants started using them instead of like menus, and then also the technology right Before it used to be you menus, and then also the technology right before it used to be you had to upload a app, some random app, to your phone. You're like I don't want to upload anything. Now it's native to our phones and our cameras, so problem solved, but yeah I do that.
Speaker 2:That was a game changer. When that happened, it was just like, oh, I don't have to do an app and I don't have to like go through something, and yeah absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is funny and I do think that's like a really great thing to consider to keep continue thinking about, right, like, how is even just our like native um, our phones and other technologies, our watches, all that stuff working? Because like you said those are opportunities. Um, I think like about like ways and maps and things like that and how they're plugging in advertising and it's all geofenced based on where I'm at I'm sitting at a stoplight.
Speaker 2:It's like, hey, there's a wendy's 2.3 miles ahead exactly like if you think about it, like even as you journey into a grocery store nowadays, the very first thing you do as soon as you park is check your phone to see if you missed anything. And then you go into the store and there's a lot of advertising opportunities that people are missing if they're not taking into that consideration and that journey Because, hey, I have you as an active audience Like why am I not reaching that? And I think that's it's just again thinking about the little things. Cause, like when I started, it was okay, let's, let's create our persona and Mary, homemaker, mary, is at home and she is going to be listening to the TV while she's getting ready, and then she's going to listen to the radio on the way to drop off the kids. And now it's like, okay, I can do it on the phone, I can do it on their watch, like what's the other things you know?
Speaker 2:And I think, in my opinion, like I think the one that's really embraced it which is very weird to say this is more of that convenience channel. If you go into a convenience store, you're seeing a lot more of that, more innovative ways, like I went to fill up my gas the other day and SPCA had an ad on the actual gas tank itself and I'm like, okay, I haven't seen a gas tank wrap before. I've seen all kinds of gas station advertising, like the header cards and you know the full, but I've never seen it wrap. So I was like that's kind of cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Yeah, I love all those kinds of creative strategies.
Speaker 1:It's just fun to get involved because, like you said I love that. I hope we pull that as a quote is, brand is not awareness. It hurts to hear that, for how much time and love we put into brands and branding, but it's, it's absolutely true. Like you have to actually get it out into the world and in front of the right people at the right times and because, again, our attention is so in so many places, it almost has to be in an unexpected way and or a really convenient way, that's. The other thing I was going to mention is that I also feel like in an era I don't I might be getting ahead on my questions, but like in an era where we're, you know, dealing with a lot like a lot less access to first party data, data cooking, all of that.
Speaker 1:I think like there's an exchange opportunity right, like if, if you're willing to make things more convenient for me, I'm probably willing to give you more information. Do you feel like that's the case on your end?
Speaker 2:That's just me personally. It's it's so changed and like you constantly have to think about it. Like I remember and this is totally dating me but like when I would get my phone updates, I would always go through every single app to see what updates change. Now it's like I don't have time for that, so I'm sure it's tracking me more than I realized. Um, and when I mentioned tracking, I think it was part of our um discussion back in February. Everyone's like, yeah, I went online and I looked at how much I was being tracked and I had to make a whole bunch of changes.
Speaker 2:And I think people are just so used to having it be an easy era and like, if something I need it now or I can get it now, I can find the information. I'm like, oh, I have this, whatever and I need to google it. Google is like the everyday thing, but you don't realize how every day it's changing and there's always something else being added and adjusted. I mean, ai is taken off like crazy, and so what are they doing with AI to make sure it's getting there? But I think it's also trying to be smart about all the new technology and embracing it the way you need to and being very true to the brand, because if you're not true to your brand and your foundation, then you're going to have problems and that problem is going to rear its ugly head multiple times until you step away and create that foundation of what you're trying to stand for and how you're approaching it.
Speaker 2:And I think that's the other thing that's going on in the era today is like what do you stand for? What is that foundation Like? If I don't know that and I mean when I started it was like oh, let's create a social media persona and create sometimes we'd actually have a whole packet of like what? How do you talk about it on this channel versus that channel? But a lot of places don't have that baseline.
Speaker 1:Like a lot of places that I've started.
Speaker 2:They're like what are you talking about? Why would we need that? I'm like why wouldn't you need that? Like you never know what's around the corner and you just have to be prepared for anything. Um, and things that you don't even realize were a thing.
Speaker 1:Well, and I can imagine too, right with all things, retail trust and loyalty, right are such a huge priority for brands, especially within the CPG space. You don't want them to have to keep reconsidering every week, right. You want them to go and grab your product every week. And in order to do that, I think you have to have some sense of consistency.
Speaker 1:So I think that's such a great point there too that I just wanted to elaborate on before I go to my next question. Is that, yeah, brands, if you're not acting in alignment with your values from the start and you're just shifting with the sands or the winds of time or whatever it is that's going on, like you're actually doing more harm than good? Um, cause, I do think too, that's a whole nother discussion. Actually, we for those who are listening, who are in the Detroit area, actually on the 14th we've got all of our meetups. So Cleveland's, now Columbus, is meeting in person. Cincinnati's meeting, again in person in Detroit. I'm going to make the trip up to Detroit and see them, and we were prepping for the panel and having this exact conversation. You know, the customer journey has to be more frictionless than ever. And then again, like people, you want to buy from brands they feel that they're in alignment with, and if you're not listening to them?
Speaker 1:Then yeah, it could dig you a hole for sure. Let's talk a little bit about the relationship between brands and retailers, because it has changed, right. I feel like it's almost like flip-flopped the roles a little bit and like from what even I remember and again, I've been more on like the digital marketing and advertising side, but I've also worked on like P&G and Conagra and Smuckers, so very much kind of have heard the stories I'm really curious to know you know, how has those relationships have changed? How are you seeing some of the more successful CPG companies adopt their approaches to like those relationships, to those partnerships?
Speaker 2:I think it's. It's very, very fascinating because we're in an era where you're having retail media networks is really, and I think this is something as an agency you get lost with really, because you're working for your client and say your client is Conagra, right, and Conagra is then calling on Kger and that's their customer. And then you're working with 8451 and that's technically a vendor partner for you, but it's really technically because they're owned by kroger, they're a customer. So it becomes this whole big thing. And the thing that's interesting is rmns are starting to try to get more alignment with their parent company. Um, are they, are they close to 100 being there? No, of course not, but they're trying, they're making small strides to that and so they're becoming a little bit more intentional with, like, their jbp commitments, their up fronts, their any commitments that they need, but at the same time, as the customer side and so the brand side, there's also that commitment so you can stay on shelf and you know that merchandising commitment that you have to adhere to. So it's like trying to weigh and balance the merchandising commitment with the marketing commitment and it gets very tricky very quickly and I think what's probably going to happen and I'm seeing some of these actually happen, successful, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think we're still in that test and learn era, if you will, of I'm going to push back on our retail media network and say, no, we're not going to hit this crazy number that you're giving us, because the number is always growing off of what you spent versus what you committed to and you have various different things. It could be innovation that's coming out. It could have been, you know, price increases that weighed into this, and so it's making it harder and all the numbers are doing is going up and up and up and up, and I think retailers are starting to realize that they need to be a little bit more strict or not strict, but less strict on what they're trying to do to kind of lower that expectation, because the expectations are becoming astronomical and almost unapproachable. And I think the ones that actually partner and have those honest conversations and actually have those JVPs are the ones that are moving things forward. But even then, I've been in many JBPs that are not the most effective of conversations and the partnership is not really there. It's more of like he said, she said, and it gets crazy. But then the ones that are like okay, this is what I can do, and this is where I'm willing to meet you and then kind of showcasing and weighing that pros and cons.
Speaker 2:I think those are the ones that you know like hey, we're willing to test this, are the ones that are starting to be more successful. But it's also harder because you've got the smaller brands that aren't even at the table and it's only the big brands paving the way. So some of those are successful and some of them way not successful. So it's an interesting dynamic and it'll be interesting to see. I think they're starting to get some shifts. I'm definitely seeing that across a couple of different retail media networks and how they're shifting things. But at the same time it's a unique environment to be in and it'll be interesting to see if the pushback from brands actually makes the retailer kind of come down a little bit and make it more realistic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been really interesting to watch because I've been saying so like I used to work on Gillette for example, and direct to consumer.
Speaker 1:It's like it used to be, like the big brands, big CPG names. They rolled the shelf space, they got the premium spots. You know they obviously have the means, the budget, everything. But then all of a sudden you start seeing these disruptors which come in the form of direct-to-consumer brands to start with so like Harry's is a great example of a direct-to-consumer brand to start only online sales and eventually worked into retail. And it's so funny because then I was actually working on Gillette at a time when they were like how do we get DTC off the ground? We got to do it fast, and so it's just really interesting to see that kind of change in dynamic, and so I was kind of curious. You know, considering the fact that direct to consumer is still like a thriving and growing thing, it's definitely disrupted those traditional retail relationships. How do you see DTC strategies influencing retail media and how can established brands, like maybe some of our clients, adapt these approaches into within their existing retail partnerships?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, in order to really kind of embrace that DTC mentality is you really have to like make sure you're working your data, you're working that personalization and you're kind of like being really flexible, because if you think about DTCs, they do a lot more of they're willing to take risks, whereas the bigger brands don't want to take the risks as much. They're wanting to do the tried and true Maybe, maybe have a test and learn budget, maybe not. Whereas DTC is like you want to test and learn something, Sure, we're going to, we're all in, like we have nothing to lose, but to keep trying. I mean I know I'll watch like Shark Tank and it's fun to watch things on shark tank and then like see it come to life in real life afterwards, yeah, um, and it's, and it kind of is influenced, influential. It's like what have they been doing?
Speaker 2:And I think it's a thinking outside of the box, it's being flexible, it's really kind of leaning into that data, that personalization, and taking it to the forefront and not being scared to try something, and I think the DTC has that really mapped out. Are they successful in some of the things they've done? No, but there's a lot of things they are doing. It's very grassroots and I think we forget about the grassroots technology and the opportunities that grassroots provides. I know when I started I was like hey, let's talk about grassroots, and now it's like I don't hear that word ever anymore, and I think DTC embraces it, because they have to be scrappy, yeah, and they don't have as many dollars.
Speaker 2:So it's like, if I'm going to do marketing, this is what I'm going to do, and if it doesn't work, I'm going to try this, whereas brands are constantly like I want to keep doing what I'm doing but, after a time that starts kind of flatline and if you're not constantly trying something different, you're not going to keep moving forward, and I think that's something that the number one thing that DTC can a hundred percent influence the brands is try something new they are they really? Are Be. Embrace the ambiguity, embrace the difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, gillette, one more blade isn't going to cut it.
Speaker 2:I love you guys. Love you guys, but it ain't.
Speaker 1:and it's crazy because this all happened, gosh, I think this was back in 2011, 2012, I think, um, or maybe just after that. So I mean, it's not even been 10 years and I just even remember, like the just the sheer amount of disruption. And then again, like once you, you see it, you can't unsee it.
Speaker 1:I would start to look around and be like, okay, yeah, the hot, the honest company they were d2c first harry or shave club, like there's so many brands now that are doing that like testing and learning, being nimble, agile, getting their product and because they've got their customer right and then they've got the power to go in and be like we want how, we want shelf space. You, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think the other thing is is they are really embraced, like their persona and they know their brand heritage and I think that's really key Cause if you think about the ones that you've named, all of them you can pretty much say they stand for this and they stand for that. And it's not ambiguous of like it could stand for this and it could stand for that. Like I know in my time at Mentos, like we changed our brand position so many times, you know, because we were trying to find the right niche, and since then it's changed, sure, and so it's fascinating. You have to change because it doesn't always stay the same, because each generation is different and how they approach things is different. But I think, at the end of the day, these direct to consumer or direct DTC brands are really embracing that they know who they are and they won't change for that, because they only have a couple of products at this point and then eventually they grow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it is smart too, I agree, cause it's not. It's not changing to the for the sake of changing, or to the point of whiplash right, because that creates distrust or disloyalty within your customers because they're like, who the hell are you?
Speaker 1:I don't understand what you sell or what you do. So I do think they're maintaining that consistency. But you're right, these bigger brands, you know that feel and seem so set in stone. It's like how can we embrace that mentality a little bit more and really look at it as evolving? Right? It's not about a big shift or change. So you know, that was one thing. I'm coming back to a different question that I skipped ahead on, because I think it all comes together nicely with this. Since you've worked across like seven major retailers that's quite a few developing media strategies, how do you approach the challenge of creating cohesive brand experiences, because we've touched on that a couple times now while navigating the unique requirements of every retail platform? That's hard.
Speaker 2:It is very difficult it's very, very challenging because everyone's different. Everyone has a little new ones or a little different thing, like, if you think about like Meijer, for instance, meijer is very community driven, so you want to make sure that what you're doing at a Meij admire is really leaning into that community aspect that everyone has, whereas a Walmart it's all about the value, whereas Costco is about the experience. So it's like you have to embrace the different nuances of each retailer. So you have to make sure that overarching you have a good brand foundation, that your overarching brand is looking the same, having that consistent feel and consistent look. Overarching brand is looking the same, having that consistent feel and consistent look. So then, if I see an ad for Walmart and I see an ad for a national ad or I see the Meyer ad, I'm seeing that consistent look and message, but the message itself will be different. So I will have more of a community sound mindset for that Meyer shopper versus that value driven and that one-stop shop for like the Walmarts of the world.
Speaker 2:So it's just trying to figure those out. But then it's also kind of leaning into each of the different retail media networks of benefits and it's like sometimes you have to lean into those third party providers outside of the three, the retail media networks, because they don't offer what you need to reach your consumer.
Speaker 2:You have to understand who your target audience is and you also have to be and especially in today's world you have to be in a place where you're willing to kind of adapt your audience, because it's not always the current and lapsed households.
Speaker 2:It's like where else can I unlock other new things? Because people are changing, people are evolving and at the end of the day you don't always want to be getting those Gen X or baby boomers because eventually they're going to age out of the system. You've got to keep innovating and keep getting the new generation in there and thinking beyond that. And so it's. It's very interesting to make sure you have that baseline, but it's also being willing to change up the creative, change up the tactic that you're going at it with those retailers and maybe even adjusting the audience slightly, because it's a different person who's shopping at a Meijer versus a shopping at a Walmart and in today's environment everyone's shopping at multiple different places. So how can I get them? If they're going to Walmart for their everyday groceries but then they're going to Costco to get those big bulk items, how do I make sure I'm getting to them on that, or if they're going to Costco for their date night.
Speaker 1:For all intents and purposes, how do I reach them there? I love some Costco, I know it's very fascinating.
Speaker 2:It's very much an experience, very much got to get to Costco. If you're a Costco person, you are a Costco person.
Speaker 1:It is an event. It is an event, well, and that leads so nicely into our next question, right? Because everything you just mentioned, like it, just goes to show how fragmented this whole commerce landscape has become. What are some strategies that you have found effective, working with your clients and with your team, for maintaining that competitive edge as well?
Speaker 2:Because, yeah, it's just a lot to manage edge as well, because, yeah, it's, it's just a lot to manage. It's a lot, it really is. And I think it's extremely challenging because, the industry is changing um, especially from a measurement standpoint.
Speaker 2:I think that's where we kind of double down on is you've got to really understand the data, like let the data tell a story, have that generic name maybe it's row as, maybe it's um impressions whatever it happens to be, I wouldn't say it should be impressions. Roas is definitely the better option. But you look at that ROAS across the different retailers, see where it's netting out. At the end of the day, everybody's doing, even though they're supposed to be a generic media math. Everyone has their own version of media math. So, understanding how they're getting to the media math, everyone has their own version of media math, um. So understanding how they're getting to the media math, understanding how you need to adapt it to the different um retailers you're working with different partners you're working with so that you can really see a clear picture of what that data looks like across everyone. And really leveraging your own first party data to really kind of unlock that and I think that's how you remain competitive is really showcasing like okay, I did a CTV ad for this and this is was my ROAS and looking at that.
Speaker 2:But it's not just looking at the ROAS, it's looking at the video completion rates. It's looking at the click through rates and really kind of looking at that tactic by itself, like, was this effective? Yes, I feel like it was effective. Okay, now I'm pulling it into the bigger campaign of everything I did how was it effective there? And kind of asking those questions. So it's not just like taking the data and say, okay, I'm just going to stay with CTV forever. It's more of hey, I'm going to shift this because I'm seeing in this area that shoppable recipes is doing much better or whatever it happens to be, whatever that that component is. But it's really kind of thinking it in two veins. It's like, okay, for this campaign, how did it perform? For overarching, for everything I've done this year, how did it perform? And really kind of pushing that boundary and finding that measurement element. That really kind of leans into it. And sorry, piper loves talking about retail media, so she is here.
Speaker 1:Okay, we've got questions for her too. We'll leave this for her to answer. Now, I love it. Yeah, that's so great. I think priority dollars and looking at how and where you're spending, personalization, customization, like all those things, are definitely competitive edges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:This is why we have our live listening audience here with us too. Amy would like some clarity on what JDP is.
Speaker 2:We talk all these terms and I'm like, oh yeah, we should define.
Speaker 1:Sorry about that. Let's help Amy out.
Speaker 2:It's a joint business plan. So typically your top 10 customers sometimes it's more than that will actually meet with the retailer itself and have a meeting directly with that retailer to talk about what is their plan for the year. And they kind of can come together to kind of build out a plan on how to reach the customers, because at the end of the day, the ultimate goal between that manufacturer and that retailer is to sell product at that store. So they have those joint business plans and joint business discussions. Some of them are called top to top. So depending on the retailer it could be a smaller one and it goes to top to top.
Speaker 2:But JVP is kind of the general term. And then, when it comes to retail media networks, they're having a JVP directly with the manufacturer to say, hey, I'm going to spend X, y, z amount of money with you and I'm going to get you this CPM efficiency, or I'm going to get you this CPM efficiency or I'm going to give you this added value or this report, things like that. So they also have their own JVPs. So JVPs can be a JVP with a retailer, it could be a JVP with an RMN Retail Media Network.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fantastic Again. What's the win-win for everybody? How can? We optimize and leverage the data, customer information and data which I know certain retailers are really protective of right, because I mean obviously it's a huge advantage for them but, yeah, having those partnerships is kind of a good way to start to break down some of those limitations and barriers.
Speaker 1:So back to where you were before. You were talking a lot about like key performance indicators, KPIs, metrics, ROAS, which is return on advertising, in case you've not heard the term before, listeners how do you approach, how's your approach to measuring success evolved as retail media has matured? What metrics should marketers be prioritizing? Because I think there are such a thing as like those feel good vanity metrics that sometimes it's just nice to see, but did it actually yield anything?
Speaker 2:Well, and I think it's it's come. I went to a conference earlier this year and it comes down to like the. There's like four levels of measurement, not everyone's at all four levels. So at first you have the traditional media, which is your typical like clicks, impressions, you know very things that aren't really telling you a lot, but it's telling you how many people you've reached, how many people you've captured. And then you've got the level two, which is getting a little bit more into like what's my return on ad spend, but it's not giving you like the control group versus the post control, like, and I think that's where a lot of people are kind of struggling a little bit.
Speaker 2:It's like okay, did my media actually activate or was it just because we absolutely happened to run a merch event during that time?
Speaker 2:Like we had a buy three, get five or whatever it is, um, you know, and so what else was in factor? And I think we're getting into a place where, like, level three is where you're really being able to get kind of that clean room analysis, where you're really focusing in on that specific um area, um and tactics. So clean room analysis, where you're really focusing in on that specific area and tactics, so clean room is where you're taking out all the other extra areas and just focusing on that one tactic to see how it performs, and so that's where a lot of people are trying to get to. But the other thing is is at the end of the day, we're all aiming to get to level four, which is where I was kind of alluding to earlier, where I can take what I did at Kroger and I can take what I did at Walmart, put them together side by side, knowing that the metrics that I'm using are identical and I can compare them across the board.
Speaker 2:Right now, if I take what KPM sends me versus Walmart Connect, totally two different things and various different things that they have in play. So it's really understanding how they're getting to that metric and kind of asking that question and not being afraid to ask the question where are you getting the metric, how are you doing the math? What does that look like? I have a meeting next week with one of our retail media networks asking that very question, because every time they come back it's always like three times higher than everyone else's. So it's like okay, well, where are you getting?
Speaker 2:it and how are you doing it? There's a lot of duplication. So, understanding the duplication that they might be picking up across other places, because that's also a factor, because, at the end of the day, you're not just going to run an offsite ad. You're probably going to run an onsite ad, you're going to have some search, you're going to have a whole bunch of other stuff. It's very omni channel focused and so you have to consider like, okay, am I just looking at this versus that? And I think, at the end of the day, the easiest one is ROAS. But I think it's also incremental sales. Yes, because how much was incremental, like how much did I actually get on top of this that I wouldn't have got had I not run this campaign? And I think that one's the key one and any kind of metrics that you're looking at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, how did you move the needle? But I love a couple of things you pointed out there. It's like, even when you see like really high or like three times like what it normally is, or a three times benchmark, sure it's a reason to celebrate, but, like you said, it's also a reason to question, because it's like I mean toilet paper during covid, come on, oh yeah, of course, talk about metrics. You might as well just throw out the window like hopefully, hopefully we will never have a run on toilet paper, like we did during covid.
Speaker 2:Well, right now it's eggs, so yeah, it's true, that's true.
Speaker 1:so you have to think about those external and economic and other situational factors, like you said, that could have caused that spike, instead of just attributing it to maybe the wrong thing. Yeah, so yeah, don't celebrate too soon.
Speaker 2:It could be so simple as the weather. I mean. Yes, you know, when we were fighting the fires in California, it was probably just liters of water, water, like you know, that went spiked and it's you have to think about those factors to to see if it was an isolated incident or it's actually something that will be a long term impact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, on the happier side of like the positive aspect of you know data driving kind of something that was obviously like good and worked well or that you were able to take in leverage to pivot I was wondering if you could share an example where data insights had led to maybe an unexpected opportunity, a strategy pivot that then helped to deliver some results A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:I think one of the ones that really sticks with me and I'm going to have to be kind of vague on some of the details, but it's really looking at audience insights and seeing what we can do to unwrap audiences, because audience there's so much more with the data that's being provided. Like you know, um, various different networks are providing additional data for first party data that's available and they're making it more readily available for their marketing efforts. So a lot of RMNs will still default to the current and last households. That's great. That's great, it's exciting. Not exciting, it's really thinking beyond that.
Speaker 2:So, if you're looking at a specific occasion, trying to think about, like, okay, I'm going to be advertising within Valentine's Day or something, and you're thinking like, okay, beyond just the, the boyfriend and girlfriend, husband, wife, um, you know, mom and kids, dad and kids getting their um things, what else is out there? Well, galentine's day is really kind of like taking a big, big emphasis and it's a new thing. It's like is there a way, an opportunity to to really see who the Galentine's are and really kind of double down on that, and that's something that is like, okay, it's a new trend. How can we capitalize on this trend, how can we bring it into our media and really kind of unlock that? And so that's some stuff that we've done on our side of just really unlocking and seeing new households and new opportunities, and so data has definitely told us that story. It's like you have another person out there Like how can we unlock that, is it?
Speaker 2:Hey, there's a trend with a certain I'm trying to think of a good example, like I don't know why white Lotus comes to mind, but something, maybe white Lotus they use in their, in their show that people are like oh my gosh, this is so amazing, I need to have this. It's like how can I unlock that from a data perspective? Because there's something else going on. Like people are really spiking with like white Lotus. Why is there something I can tie into white Lotus to bring into my advertising?
Speaker 2:So I think it's things like that and just really kind of thinking about your audience beyond just the stereotypical current and lapsed, and think be thinking a little bit more in depth on what you're actually doing. So that's what we've done is we've actually been able to identify audiences that you're like Hmm, I never really thought about that audience, but yeah, that could be an untapped market and by doing that, it actually became one of our top performing markets and we were like, yeah, we're using that again and we're using it across other retailers beyond just the one that we used it with. So, again, looking at the data, kind of understanding, like who is this person, what's some of the interest, what's some of those cross opportunities, what's some of that things that are popping in the everyday?
Speaker 2:that we can really kind of leverage within our stuff, so it's kind of a combination of data and then understanding what's happening in the market. Leverage within our stuff so it's kind of a combination of data and then understanding what's happening in the market and I think kind of tying this into probably a future question is like AI is helping with that too. So it's can, like, take the data, show like hey, what's happening? Like why is this popping during white Lotus? And it could say, well, this is what's happening. So you may not be familiar, but you can actually tie it into what you're looking for and then pull it back with other data to tell that story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love it. That's great. Yeah, I agree, and we've had the conversation a number of times here on the podcast and at Together Digital Events. It's just like AI it was literally built for pattern recognition and we have a big data problem within our industry, right, where we have more information than we even know what to do with because our human brains can't process. So, yeah, exactly, use AI for something. Please don't use it to write crappy copy Like no, no. Instead, give it all the analytics and the data and say find me some insights, find me some new markets, tell me where I'm not reaching for money right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you have to breed the AI to like make it work to the best, but it will take the stuff that it will take you weeks to do and does it in seconds and then you take that and you really make it work hard for you. And I think that's really what's happening in a lot of the different um RMNs is we're actually having a lot of automation bidding that look like modeling. We have a lot of um, you know, even dynamic creative that's going on in the marketplace that can. It's all AI based, taking it to that next level and making sure that we're reaching the target when we need to reach them, where we need to reach them and how we need to reach them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the way they want to be reached yeah. It made me think too, as you were talking. It reminded me like I think one of my favorite brands that has really taken that consumer insight and leveraged it and did something good with it was Old Spice. They know that women are buying the product. So everything that you see, it's like they. Yes, it's advertising Old Spice, which is body wash for men, but they are talking to the women, you know, as long as the audience insight.
Speaker 1:They have unlocked Totally and it was so funny because I remember this happened like more than 10 years ago and everybody's like so gobsmacked by it and I'm like but we do 80% of the buying, like we are 80% of the buying power in the country. Of course we're buying the freaking body wash. Yes, you should be talking to us because, yes, I want my man to smell like a man and I'm choosing the scent, not him, because I got to be the one to smell him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's like why? Why do I want him to smell like something else, like?
Speaker 1:yeah, and then it's just yeah. So there's just so much opportunity there as well too. Again whole, nother fun little rabbit hole we could go down, but we don't have the whole day, so all right, I'm curious. You know your journey in the industry. Like you said, you kind of have been here from like the beginning of those retail media networks. Is there any particular, like commonly held belief that you've changed your mind about since you've been in the industry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's becoming more and more apparent, like there's always been that marketing funnel. It's always been. I've done so many campaigns, so many presentations with that marketing funnel saying, oh, we've got the awareness, you got the consideration, you got conversion, and I always add the loyalty because I want them to come back Right. Um, it's not that same, it's not there anymore. Um, it's so not there. And I I talked about it a little bit earlier to earlier in our chat about how I can go from not even being in the mindset to purchasing in like two seconds and that belief has totally went out the door. I think you have to be, you have to make your ads shoppable, you have to think of that consumer journey, you have to make sure you're really kind of honing in on all of that, otherwise you're you're missing out, like it's a total linear process and I think what.
Speaker 2:I heard in a conference again earlier this year was hey, my brand team thinks we're aware that they're going to do their awareness and then the retail is going to do that consideration conversion. And it's not that you have to be working together holistically the entire time, because I still firmly believe, and I don't think it's gone anywhere at the power of three, like you see the thing at least three times and then you're going to purchase it because it's now top of mind for you and so the brand does need to still advertise, still create that foundation of what that brand stands for. But then the retail media really comes in and gives you the opportunity to purchase it and and really encourages you to purchase it at whatever retailer you happen to be going to and you happen to be favoring at that moment in time. And people are not loyal to any retailer anymore it's very much, except for costco. The costco love, um, but at the end of the day they're they're willing to go other places.
Speaker 2:So it's like how do I continue to build that and push that?
Speaker 2:And I think the reach, the marketing funnel, is still important. You still need to know if I'm doing a CTV ad, it should be an awareness build, but know that that awareness is still adding that context that I should be buying it at a dollar general, versus you know, the Walgreens or whatever, um you know, and it's just kind of reinforcing it. If I see it three times and I happen to be at that dollar general, I'm going to purchase that product, um, and I think that's just the important part is just kind of continuing to see holistically how all of the plans work together and it's not yours is here and mine is here, it's. We have to work together in like that circle and I think we're calling it now Um, the it's. It's more of that spiral and that flywheel is what we're calling it and that's you have to embrace the flywheel versus marketing funnel, which it's hard for me to even say flywheel for it. But that's really where the industry is going and it's no longer the funnel, it's the flywheel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the funnel has definitely collapsed. Like you're a hundred percent right with impulse buying, with immediate gratification, being able to sell through video, through social, all of those different things. I mean none of us sitting here today can't say we haven't done a little clickety, click late at the night and late at night and we're like wait, what did I buy? It just shows up at home. You're like I think I remember buying this.
Speaker 2:I know I'm like I have that. I have that Amazon box and I don't know what's in it.
Speaker 1:It's like Christmas all over again. I mean, I don't know I got myself something. I was half asleep, but I know it's going to be great when I open it up. I don't know why. About this it's fine, oh, awesome. So yeah, I mean, I did have a question in here about AI, which I feel like you kind of already addressed. I'm going to bypass that one and go to for the brands that are just beginning, cause we talked a lot about big brands, um, but for those, I have a lot of friends who own small businesses that are working to build retail media as like a growth strategy, and it's obviously it's hard right. You're contending with a lot of different people, a lot of different things trying to get into these stores. It's like moving a mountain. What are some? What are some places in which they could start looking for opportunities?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the thing that you have to think about is when you're a smaller brand, you have to think about what retailer do I really want to push on and really double down on, because if you get into some of the bigger ones, the bigger players have very high minimums and if you're a smaller player, you don't have. Your minimum is your, but their minimum is your budget for the year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, does not make sense, so you have to be a little bit more scrappy.
Speaker 2:You have to think beyond just the RMNs. Some RMNs do have lower budgets, especially like the smaller retailers. So you have to think, okay, where's the consumers that I want to move the needle, how do I get to them? And in some cases you might be starting off small and just doing search across different ones. Search is probably the best one to be in because it's the closest way to conversion, but you have to be driving that awareness and that consideration to search is more of that consideration conversion metric. So you have to think beyond, since, like, maybe it's partnering with third party providers, building that awareness, building that momentum.
Speaker 2:Because I've talked to several retailer or CPGs that are so small and they're like, yeah, we're going to go into Kroger and we're going to advertise within Kroger and I'm like, okay, but Kroger doesn't know, like KPM doesn't understand how to do division level media. They aren't made that way, they're made at the national level. So if you're not able to do that, that division level, and you don't have presence and across all of their divisions, you're out of luck and you're just wasting money and not getting it very far. So you need to figure out how do I make my dollar stretch further and what is some of those more economical ways of getting to where I need to be? So, like if staying within the Kroger world because we're in Cincinnati is we've got like, the more economical is your search, your targeted onsite ads are economical, but those may not work for you.
Speaker 2:I've had several clients that they just they don't work because most of my sales are in store versus online. So it's just really kind of embracing like what can work and I think having that test and learn mentality try something, don't be afraid to try something and then, once you find that tried and true, then like, continue to think through your budgets but always have that test and learn, because that test and learn is going to like help you tremendously. Well, there's several times in my career where I was like I don't want to test that and I'm so glad I tested it because it became so much mental to future campaigns. Had I not, I would have been behind the eight ball for everything else. So being scrappy, understanding your consumer, understanding how you're approaching it and where to find them, is going to be really key to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I will say just cautionary tale. I mean, when you are a small, even a midsize company like Greek Dale could be the thing that if you go bust, if you're not careful, even though they're podcasts. I want to plug for a second because it's so amazing. You should check it out too. It's called the Together Marketing Rescue, and we had this exact conversation last week with a young woman here in Cincinnati who owns the Davis cookie company.
Speaker 2:So y'all go check out the Davis company, her website.
Speaker 1:They have a food truck that comes to your office so you guys should get some cookies for an office day. Yeah, they do like cookie classes. She does so much. She's got online sales, a cookie subscription box, and you know we got to talking about retail and she got into the Oakley Kroger's and my two co like hosts for the show were just gushing, because the whole point of this podcast is to bring small businesses in that are struggling with a particular pain point and we help figure out how to diagnose that situation and then help support them with marketing.
Speaker 1:And then our members who provide marketing services pitch them. So we're putting small businesses that are struggling with marketing and marketers who provide marketing services from like either independent contractor or boutique agency situation to then like meet their next client is so cool, and so our members are getting new business and these small businesses are getting support. But it was really funny because you know Christina Davis, the woman who owns it, was like well, we got to. We have to learn what products are going to be working at shelf, because something I learned that I didn't know is that you pay for the products that don't sell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so outside of, like all the additional fees and costs to like market and store, to advertise for the shelf space and also if it doesn't sell. And so that's where I think your approach of test and learn is so wise and I think Christine is such a smart business woman. So, christine, if you're listening seriously like so smart to say like yeah, retail is our goal, but ultimately I can't put anything and everything behind it because I could lose my shirt. Like I really need to do it as a phased, you know more agile learning approach. But yeah, so you can check out, check it out for Oakley Kroger's if you're close by listeners, oh, I totally have a cookie company.
Speaker 1:They have like cookie dough. It's like a cookie monster. One it's like blue. It's really fun.
Speaker 2:I know somebody who goes all the time to Oakley Kroger, so I'll make her buy me one, and she goes next time.
Speaker 1:Love it, love supporting our small businesses. All right, I've got one more question before we go into our power round, and then it looks like we've got actually one quick question from our audience. Actually, I'm going to go ahead and ask Nancy's question. She wants to know, regarding audience data, are you referencing the RMN data or the brand's data, and which data is the more valuable and how do you look at the data as a whole?
Speaker 2:Great question, I think it's important to look at both.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, and sometimes it's harder to get the first party data aligned to the both, but at the end of the day, being able to kind of digest it both is going to get you a lot further.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the, at the same time, you have to understand the RMNs data, because that's what they're talking to with the retailer and the retailer is pulling that. They're not pulling the first party data that you have necessarily, and so you have to understand how yours relates to theirs and yours might be telling slightly different story and be able to tell why it's telling a different story, so that you can talk intelligently to your retailer. But at the end of the day, if you can do both, it's better to do both and to really kind of streamline it, because if you're doing your own data, you can take it across the different partners that you have, versus just doing your data, versus just their data, because I've definitely seen some partners and manufacturers getting into trouble just talking about their data all day long and the retailer's like it's not matching mine and there's like this, you know, destruction of conversation if you're not able to kind of like swing both ways.
Speaker 2:So it's really good to be able to show in both terms and to be able to understand and dissect it. At the end of the day, the goal is to ultimately use your first party data and tie it back to that retailer media data. But if you're not as well advanced with the first party on your side, RMN is fine. Just understand the nuances, understand how it's devised and created in order to like really talk it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and knowing that it's not your own right, it's like your own owned data. Yeah, exactly, awesome, thanks, we'll keep the questions coming. If you've got them, folks, we're still here. We've got a few minutes left, all right. Before we move into the power round, I wanted to know, as we look forward, how do you see the relationship between retail media, e-commerce and traditional marketing evolving in the next few years?
Speaker 2:It is a hundred percent going to evolve. It's going to constantly change. I feel like I can't even predict some of the things that will probably be on the horizon. I mean, we have so many different things that are talking about it. Like you know, people have talked about the metaverse. Is it going to happen, Is it not?
Speaker 1:going to happen, but maybe not as exciting. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like I don't know if the how big the metaverse is going to be or if it's not like we keep talking about it.
Speaker 1:We keep dancing around it, um.
Speaker 2:Now, like a like you and I talked about earlier, like QR codes were like, oh, it's going to be big, and then it wasn't. Now it is, it's just mainstream, um. So I feel like things are constantly evolving. I will say that what's going to happen is traditional media is going to have to start thinking beyond their traditional metrics. Right, you're going to have to think beyond, like that impressions and that store counts, and you're going to have to get a little bit more creative and, whether that's with AR technology or it's definitely with the personalization, it's making that data work harder and smarter for you. Yeah, and using that AI technology that we have out there, you know, it's definitely going to have that greater emphasis on measurement and attribution. I mean thinking beyond, like everything siloed. It's very much an integrated approach and if we aren't integrating, we forward thinking, we're we're really going to be behind the ball game, cause I know that there's some brands out there that are just now starting to talk about digital media and I'm like, well, you're a little behind the ball, um, right, we'll get there, um, but it's not, it's not a lost cause. I mean, you have to start somewhere, but it's like you're having to think holistically.
Speaker 2:If you want to, if you want to be something, you have to always embrace that change, always embrace that ambiguity, like, had someone not told me early in my career like you need to understand digital, I would not be where I am at today had I not embraced it. Or had I walked away from my my boss when he said, yeah, you're doing shopper marketing. I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. Um, you know, I'm here for brand management. I don't know what you're talking about. Um, so had I not done that and had you not had that embrace, you're not gonna see that future, because the future is stuff that we haven't even dreamed up yet at the end of the day, um, and so you have to make sure you're embracing that and taking it to that next level yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:The more like holistic we can look at all of it and the less siloed we are, it makes so much sense. I mean, it's funny. I was just kind of commenting today in a morning meeting with somebody about even our name together digital. We were started in 2016 when we had digital only agencies and above the line and PR and you know, influencer, it's like all these different things, and now you don't see just everybody's digital right. We need to be thinking forward and ahead and holistically as brands Because, again, our customers, they don't see those things as segmented or siloed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all integrated and it's all going to work together. I don't think traditional media is going to be what it traditionally has been. It's going to be definitely more integrated. You can start to see some of it Even even if you listen to the radio, like. I've noticed drastic changes with just how radio is is showcasing it, how TV is showcasing themselves. Um, and it's just. You have to, they have to think beyond, otherwise they're going to end up becoming and this is a really bad analogy but um, you're going to become the Sears of the world, where Sears doesn't exist. It was one of the leading manufacturers and retailers. Now, it's not because it didn't embrace the change, it did not Great example, Don't be Sears?
Speaker 1:Oh, I do miss Sears. Ron, Put on your Sunday best kids All right. Ashley wants to know could you suggest one or two resources for someone just getting into retailer media? That is consistently a solid place to go for new cutting edge info, outside of you of course.
Speaker 2:You could always reach out to me, of course, but the places that I would start I got started with Path to Purchase. Path to Purchase was where I went to the first conference. That's where my boss sent me to learn about shopper marketing. It's still traditionally. It's really a strong place to go and to get that information.
Speaker 2:If you're looking at specific retailers, kantar Retail IQ is always a great source of information, as well as if you're trying to dive into retail and understand them in a more detailed level, if you will.
Speaker 2:Linkedin, ironically, is one of my favorite sources because people are always willing to help within LinkedIn and there's so many groups and chats that you can just ask a random question and there's no judgment, which I love. That, and that's how I've taught a lot of myself on different things is through that. I do get daily updates from, like, retail dive I think that's what it is and there's different marketing dive. There's a whole bunch of different retail updates that you can get and those are just really helpful just to get those those snapshots of what's happening in the industry and if someone thing sparks your curiosity, you dive deeper and you can learn what's happening because understanding your retailer that you're working with and what they're facing in their everyday is actually going to help inform your, your strategy and how you're approaching them and working with them and their customers. Cause you've got to know hey target is facing some backlash recently, so how do I combat that? How do I make things unique and different in that space?
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. That's such great advice. Those are some good places. I'm sure our listeners are taking lots of notes. I would say one other thing, too is, just like you know, you said people reach out. I love that, so we'll drop your LinkedIn link into the show notes and everything. But also just that, just that whole aspect of like peers as mentors, like finding other women that are in the retail media space. You know we have a lot of that going right now with the other digital.
Speaker 1:In fact, our peer group applications are open. Members, if you're listening, sign up and get your peer group. Having your own little personal board of directors. Women that are kind of like in the same space, that know the pains of all that but then also can like talk about life and everything else in between, is so beneficial. So I think, surrounding yourself, you know, finding other communities or other ways to plug into communities that are in alignment with or have people that do retail marketing. It's just a smart way to go.
Speaker 1:You're going to feel like you're with your peeps. They're going to know the pain points, but they're also maybe a half set up ahead of you, which is maybe all you need to kind of keep ahead, because sometimes it feels like we have to keep up. We have to keep up, but then, we also have to keep our jobs and manage our families and other. We want to live, you know, yeah, and so I think community is another great way to do that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I had a friend call me the other day. She's like, okay, I'm new to this and tell me what I need to know. And she's like in the 30 minute conversation we had, she's like you've taught me more than I've been able to learn at work and thank you because her boss is so busy.
Speaker 2:They're just constantly moving and it was just like, hey, what do you want to know? And I can help you know. And just, I think anyone in the industry is typically has that persona and if they don't, that's sad, because it's a very small industry we're in. Everyone tends to cross paths at one place or another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love it All right. Well, we are at time. The hour just flew by. Thank you so much, dina, for your insights and your wisdom and for sharing it so freely, again, really inspiring and encouraging a lot of our listeners that are new to the space or interested in the space. And thank you, listeners, for all your fantastic questions. We love it when we hear from you as well. Yes, all right, thank you for having me. Absolutely my pleasure. All right, everyone. So this episode will probably be up in live later next week. So keep an eye on that. Check us out on YouTube. We are on Spotify, we are on iTunes. Wherever you stream your podcast, you'll probably find us. The next two weeks. I'm actually traveling for some speaking, so I'll miss you all here, but I'll be back at the end of May for some more amazing conversations. Everyone, till then, keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2:La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la, produced by Heartcast Media.
