Turn Fuzzy Messaging Into LinkedIn Gold

Most women in digital can do the work. The harder part is explaining it in a way that actually lands — with the right clients, in the right rooms, at the right price.

That's the problem host Amy Vaughan tackles in this week's episode of The Power Lounge with guest Orly Zeewy, author and self-described "facilitator of light bulb moments." Orly has spent years helping women entrepreneurs cut through the noise of their own messaging — not by adding more to it, but by stripping it down to what clients actually need to hear.

In this conversation, they get into why so many women default to underselling themselves, how to identify your zone of genius and communicate it with confidence, and what a LinkedIn profile needs to do in the 7 seconds before someone decides to keep scrolling. Orly also speaks frankly about pricing — why women consistently undercharge, how brain science plays into it, and what it costs the women who come after you when you do.

If your messaging feels scattered, your LinkedIn feels like everyone else's, or you're not charging what your work is worth, this episode gives you a clear place to start.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:10 - "Clarifying Your Digital Brand"
06:40 - Defining Your Zone of Genius
08:53 - Zone of Genius vs Competency
12:12 - LinkedIn Profile Mistakes
17:20 - "Crafting a Targeted LinkedIn Pitch"
19:46 - "Discovering Your True Gift"
24:47 - LinkedIn Strategy for Transitioning Careers
27:05 - "Women, Money, and Mindset"
31:48 - Confidently Owning Your Worth
32:34 - Educate Clients for Better Value
37:48 - "Power Pose and Perception"
42:03 - "Targeting Startups for Team Success"
43:27 - Masterclass: Luxury Language for Women
46:37 - "Ask, Give, Grow Philosophy"
48:59 - "Join Together Digital Community"
49:20 - Outro

Quotes:
Amy Vaughan:
"We have to fall in love with the problems we're trying to solve, not just the solutions. When you show up to help and uplift, your brilliance becomes impossible to ignore."

Orly Zeewy:
“Messaging is simply sharing the real value you bring and the problems you solve. If it’s true, it isn’t bragging.”

Key Takeaways:
Messaging Is a Mindset—Not a Megaphone
Zone of Genius > Zone of Competency
First Impressions on LinkedIn Matter
Transformation, Not Explanation
Don’t Go It Alone—Ask for Outside Perspective
Raise the Bar—And Your Prices
Community & Coaching Change Everything
Embrace the “Why Not Me?

Connect with the guest Orly Zeewy:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/orlyzeewy/
Website: https://zeewybrands.com/elevate-your-brand/
Purchase Orly’s book: https://bit.ly/readylaunchbrand%20

The Clarity Hour:

This is a monthly event by Orly Zeewy. If you're feeling fuzzy about your messaging and want to learn how to get clear, here's the link to register: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/_PFctwRZRN6MK24ttI28rg#/registration

Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast: https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/

Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by visiting Home - Together Digital

Produced by Heartcast Media: http://www.heartcastmedia.com

Transcript

Welcome And Purpose

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power Lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn, and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who choose to who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections, you can join the movement at TogetherIndigital.com. And today, friends, we are tackling one of the most common challenges that I hear from our community of professional women. I know what I do, but I struggle to explain it in a way that actually lands, especially when we're talking about digital and tech, right? So if your LinkedIn profile isn't reflecting your reflecting your brilliance, or your messaging feels a little scattered and unclear, then you are in exactly the right place with us today. Our guest, Orly Zeewee, is an author, speaker, educator, and what she calls a facilitator of light bulb moments. Her superpower is making the fuzzy clear. Orly works with women entrepreneurs to help them clarify and communicate their zone of genius to the people who need it most so that they can attract what we all need, more clients, right? And to grow our business. She has lectured at Horton, taught entrepreneurship at Drexel, Jefferson and Penn, and her book, Ready Launch Brand, The Lean Marketing Guide for Startups, was the number one business book on Amazon in April 2021, endorsed by endorsed by Seth Godin. Pretty solid endorsement there, no less. And her next book, Why Not Me, a female guide for entrepreneurship, is in publishing in 2026. Big old claps and snaps for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Amy. It's fun that that you happen to be in Cincinnati, which is where I went to school and I got my actually two undergraduate degrees in Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

So bit of a throwback, you know, you have to come back and visit so we can hang in person.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

There we go. I may do that.

Why Messaging Feels Hard

SPEAKER_02 2:21

So check out the old stomping grounds once again. We're excited to have you here. We have lots of live listeners with us today. You know, you mentioned LinkedIn and, you know, marketing yourself. Those are two big hot button issues for a lot of our members who are either, you know, creating their own businesses, doing a side hustle, promoting umselves, you know, as people out in the job market. So let's start with the big picture. So many women, um, especially within this community, I know I'm biased, but it is true. They're brilliant at what they do, but they often struggle to articulate it. Why do you think messaging is such a persistent challenge, especially for women entrepreneurs?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Well, you know, this is such a great question. And it's unfortunately it is very true. And honestly, one of the first things I hear from women who I work with is I don't want to be braggy, I don't want to be salesy. And the reality is, first of all, messaging, because let's let's back up. So messaging starts with understanding the value that you offer to your client. So if you're not clear about that, and you're not clear about who that client is and how you're actually uh solving a real problem for that client, it's really how do you develop messaging, right? Then the only kind of messaging left is to talk about yourself, which is the least interesting thing that you can message about. Because the reality is that what people really want to know is what is the value that your clients get. If you understand that, and if you really stand in your value and know how that value shows up, then it's really about messaging around that, and it's not about promoting yourself. Um, plus, you know, I always because you know, I hear this a lot, I don't want to brag. And so one of the things I always say, well, if it's true, it's not bragging if it's true. And you're not talking about you specifically, but how you help others. And I think once you can shift it to be more about in service of others, the the more I think people, you know, women will get more get more comfortable with the fact that the messaging is neither braggy nor salesy.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Right. Yeah, I think that is such a good mindset shift to go from I'm not selling, I'm supporting, I'm helping, I'm inspiring, I'm encouraging, I'm uplifting, like all these different ways in which, you know, I think as women, we are very much conditioned to be of help and support and service of others. And so it just feels like a natural mindset shift to go from I'm not trying to force myself or my services on people. I'm really just trying to let them know what I do so that I can help them best. Um that is a big hurdle to get over.

From Bragging To Value

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I think that, you know, the other piece that's really important, and this is where the clarity comes in, the clearer you are, which means being succinct and focus on your clients, not on yourself. Yes, the problem happens when we start explaining. Stop explaining. Yeah. Explaining is selling. Because now I'm trying to convince people. But when I'm talking about why people, you know, when I really am focused on why people work with me, now it's something I want to learn more about. Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

And you kind of want to leave them with a little bit of mystery so that they can ask questions, right? So you can kind of gauge their interest in what you're providing.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Exactly. What you really want to hear, and this is um because the elevator pitch is usually the starting point. And that's usually, you know, kind of when I when I start having a conversation with someone. And what you want to hear is tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's how you know you've got something there that's interesting for them, right? And it's valuable to them. Oftentimes, too, I'm always reminding myself and others, it's like we have to fall in love with the problems we're trying to solve, not the solution necessarily. And sometimes the solution is our product or service, but that's not what people want to hear about. They want to hear problems that are relatable that they feel like, oh, I have that issue too. And if you can help, then yeah, you're that person. Um, you talk a lot about helping women communicate their zone of genius, which I love that reference. I'm assuming it's from The Big Leap. Fantastic book, friends. If you haven't read it, it's literally, I don't even know, like not even 200 pages, right? It's a pretty quick read. Um, could you explain to me for those who haven't read or listened to the book, um, what does that phrase zone of genius mean to you? And how is it different from simply just knowing what your strengths are?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah, so um, I mean, obviously you have to know what your strengths are, but knowing your strength, that's a personal, that's personal, right? You can say, so here's the difference. I am a strong communicator. That's again about me, and it's personal, but that's different than saying my superpower is connecting what I hear with what it is being said, so that others can understand and act on it, right? So there's all the the difference with the zone of genius is there's always um a um something that happens because of it. So it's not so it's not talking about me as as being a genius, it's talking about my zone of genius, what I do that helps others, and to communicate that again in a way that people can say, Oh, yeah, I get that. And I also, you know, want to say that as women and being one myself, I'm very familiar with this. We have a habit of stepping back from fully embracing our zone of genius. It's almost like we're not embarrassed, isn't the right word, but hesitant to even say, you know, so me saying making fuzzy clear, you know, that took a long time to be able to say that. Um, and what we have to do is get over the idea or the fear that because it comes easily to us, it's not valuable or worth charging a premium for. Yes. You know, because yeah, I make fuzzy clear. I mean, doesn't everybody know? No, no, some people make fuzzy fuzzier. Exactly. And the other part is that I can do it really, really fast. So, you know, um that's something you have to get comfortable with what your zone of genius is. And then you've got to literally plant your flag. You know, that's the hill you're gonna die on. This is where you live. And that's I think that's hard for everybody to do. But for women, I think there's this discomfort somehow in standing out, and that, you know, we can have a whole other conversation about where that comes from. But yeah, it's really about you got to get comfortable with the fact that, yeah, what you're doing actually has value. And uh, and also, again, it's worth charging money for because that's the other piece.

Elevator Pitches That Spark “Tell Me More”

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, and that's such great advice. Uh, you know, I I referenced the zone of genius too because I think there's another trap that we fall in as women. It's like that zone of competency versus zone of genius. And I just wanted to call it that distinction before we move to the next question, because that's another big trap, I think, in some ways, is that oftentimes women are the defaults for um work that requires detail organization, note-taking, project management, um, things like that, right? Anything that's hospitality or nurturing. And yeah, you can do that. But is that your zone of genius? Is that something that is truly ownable and differentiated for you as a service or product provider? And I think, you know, a lot of times we can just find ourselves really in a world of working for ourselves where we end up doing something that's really more our zone of competency versus our zone of genius. And it makes us hard to stand out and to own it, like you're saying, um, because it's really just the thing everybody tells us we're good at versus the distinct thing about us, like you were saying, making fuzzy clear. It's not something everyone can do. And it's very distinctly ownable because you know that is not just a competency, right? That is a special skill that really nobody else has, or very few people have, that you can then take and sell as well. Because I think sometimes when you're also kind of coming from a baseline of, well, this is what I'm good at, so I'm gonna try to charge for it, you're not even buying it.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

You know what? You have just literally summed up the problem. Because when you say I'm good at something and I guess I can charge something for it, that is very different from I have this zone of genius that very few people have. I know the value that I bring, and this is why you need testimonials, why you need to ask your clients. You you have, you know, you've already got the proof, but we're not looking at it as a way to prove it even to ourselves, right? And so what happens is we get lost in the minutiae of kind of explaining the process. And I always say, you know, the the pro the thing is nobody cares about the what and the how, they care about the why.

unknown 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Why do people work with you? Why are you doing this, right? Your zone of genius also has to align with something that you're passionate about. I mean, every founder, and I've worked with hundreds of founders, and I can tell you they're all passionate about something.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

And it just so happens my passion is I love taking a lot of stuff and then pulling out that golden thread. And then when I I I kind of give it back, I I I show it to my client, they're like, yeah, that's what I meant to say. Yeah, how did you know?

SPEAKER_02 11:43

You've hit the nail on the head.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Right? And it's and it's I am not, and this is the other piece, I'm not creating your elevator pitch. I'm helping you uncover it, discover it, and then stand firm in it.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

That's fantastic. I love it. All right. So a lot of our members um leverage LinkedIn as a platform for networking, building their personal brand, building their business, but maybe they don't fully leverage it. What are some three, what are I always like to talk about not just the good things to do, but like what are the biggest mistakes you see women making on LinkedIn and why do those mistakes possibly cause them a loss of opportunity?

Zone Of Genius Vs Competency

SPEAKER_00 12:20

That's such a great question. And I think too often we don't even realize that there are mistakes. So the three main areas. So I look at um primarily I start with what I call the identity section of your profile, which is at the top of your profile. The problem is that the the biggest issue is that so many um, so many of your profiles, and they're by the way, there are a billion people on the platform. Yeah, but about 300 million, which is still a lot of people. This is of course globally, 300 million plus are active monthly users. But out of those 300 plus million, four out of five are decision makers. They're your people. Like if you're in the B2B space, if you're selling services, if you're a consultant coach, author with you know, uh small business that's really selling a product like that, well, that's where you need to be. So good for you that you're on the right platform, right? Let's start with let's start with good news. The problem is that so many profiles end up being invisible, and that is because they stop the scroll. Encouraging the scroll is the whole point of your profile. So what happens is we get to and we're at the top of your profile, which is typically where we start in this culture because we read top to bottom, left to right. People typically will go to your headshot, and what they'll see is, and this is one of the mistakes that is easily fixable, um, they can't see your face, you're kind of turned, you've got way too much stuff, you know. You if you're a woman, you've got jewelry, you've got backgrounds, you've got, you know, I've actually had, I actually worked with a client, she had her kitchen cabinets behind her. I'm like, oh my god. It's like a selfie in her kitchen cabin. Yeah, it was kind of like a selfie. So my advice, my the first thing you should do if you haven't done it, hire somebody, get a professional headshot. And by headshot, I mean head and shoulders. Not like, you know, I don't want to see your arms, I don't want to see like your bracelets and all, you know. The pro the problem is that we are not looking at our profile the way we would look at it if we were standing us, uh, you know, we were uh uh at least back enough, far back enough that we could see it from the eyes of a potential client. So that's the first problem. The second problem is that your headline tells me nothing. It's full of jargon, it's acronyms, and it's again selling. Don't tell me about your accomplishments. Don't talk about, you know, your degrees or whatever. That's not that's not what a headline is for. The headline again is who do who do you help and what do they get? Who do you help and what do they get? You know, if you can just remember this from our conversation, honestly, but that means you have to identify who is that person that you help. And it is not everyone, which is the other thing that people do. They think, well, everyone's my customer. Nope, nope, nope, not really. Because, first of all, do you have a hundred thousand minimum marketing dollars to spend going to market to these people? No. And really, are you really helping everyone? Because what happens is, and this is a problem too with the headline, is that the messaging becomes so generic that literally it's completely forgettable.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Um, and then the last thing, of course, is the the banner. And the banner, I see this all the time. It's either a blue we hope that most of the blue your listeners are not using the generic blue banner. If you are using the generic blue banner, stop right now, figure out what you're doing, and try to find an image that explains something about what you do. But the the opposite of that is putting everything in the kitchen sink into your banner. So there's like all this text, and it's again all about you. There's your logo, and there's your face again, and there's you know, your name. And it's like, no, that's not the purpose of the banner. The purpose of the banner is to help me understand something core, something core about what you do. So I, because again, we're curious creatures, so we want to know. We don't want you to tell us everything, but pique our interest because again, the goal is to keep people scrolling, right? Scrolling is engagement. The more I scroll, the more engaged, the more likely I am to want to connect with you, not just to sell you something, but actually because I'm interested in what you do. Um, and so, you know, when I think about that is that um too often we think that every aspect of the profile, you need to shove as much information as possible. And really, you need to help us walk through your profile in the way that we're gonna want to discover more about you.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Yeah. Well, let's dig into that a little bit more because a lot of our listeners, I know that they're always like pens poised, ready to take some notes and do some actionable things that because they're like literally multitasking right now in their LinkedIn profile, unless you're driving, otherwise, don't do that. Um, what are some ways of that? Um, could you walk us through what a strong LinkedIn headline actually looks like and how someone can start to rewrite theirs? Yeah.

Stand In Your Value And Charge

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Um, yeah. So um, you know, your LinkedIn headline really um is it's not the same as your elevator pitch, but they're related. So, in a way, you've got to figure out your elevator pitch first because your pitch really should help again help people understand what you do, who you help, and what they get. So the first step is do you know who your client is? That seems like such an obvious question, but I'm always amazed how often people will say, Well, everyone's my client, or you know, they've got three, four, five different no, one. There's one client that you enjoy working with that's aligned with where you're coming from, that actually needs the pro the solution that you're providing, because otherwise you become a solution, uh, problem looking for a solution. So, um, so the other piece is that once you understand who they are, um, go ask your clients why do they work with you? You don't actually have to know, have all the answers. What you want to do is figure out the thing, and you'll hear it. And you know, part of how I got to Facilitator of Light Bulb Moments is because I spend years hearing from my clients. It's like creating these aha moments of like, oh, they changed the way they thought about their business. And then I started thinking about it. It's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So you there's something you're doing right now that is helping somebody do something. What is that? And then you need to turn it into one sentence. That's the hard part.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Yeah. Right? Get some copywriter friends to help you out.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Well, yeah, or yeah, exactly. But um, you but you really want is to understand, you know, that place where you are that is unique to you, that helps people really get. And so you want to think about a hook. So making fuzzy clear, that's a hook. Yeah. Facilitator of light bulb moments is my tagline, but then I explain that, you know, I make fuzzy clear so that you can attract your ideal clients and grow your business. I'm not talking to everybody, I'm not talking to corporations, I'm not talking to pharmaceutical companies. I am talking to um, you know, early stage businesses who are really struggling to attract their ideal clients. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, I love the specificity of that. Um, it also reminds me of a quote that a good friend of mine, Molly, always says, is you can't read the label from inside the jar. And I think that's where asking people to say, like, what do you come to me for? Or if you had to say I was known for just one specific skill, like what would that be? Because oftentimes the thing that we think is our zone of genius tends to be our competency, not what others truly see as like a gift from uh that we have. Because, like you said earlier, even we take it for granted because it comes easy to us, we don't see that as an asset. We just assume everybody does this. And it's like, no, no, they don't.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

But you have to just to say, I mean, I literally just wrote an article about you can't read, you know, you can't read the Lego from inside the jar because you don't have the perspective. And so what we end up doing is talking to ourselves, and that does not attract your ideal clients.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And let's break down the the LinkedIn profile a little bit more. So we worked on the headline. Um, what role does the banner image and headshot play in first impressions? Um, and then is this something people are overthinking or underthinking? I kind of get the sense it's a little bit of both, but I do see the pendulum swinging of like put everything in versus like make it minimal. What are your thoughts there?

LinkedIn: Audience And Stakes

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Well, first of all, make it minimal. You know, this is not an architecture project. You know, it's not, I know less is more, I know that's an that's uh that's a thing, and less is more is actually true, but you have to have the right thing. And the right thing is again, you want to you want to focus on what is the thing that your client really takes away from working with you. Now, there's there's actually two ways to approach this. One is to focus on what they get and then focus more on something key about what you offer. So for me, you know, because I'm in the clarity business and making fuzzy clear is the goal, uh, it just so happens I wear glasses. So using an eye chart is instantly recognizable and it fits my personal brand. It also connects with the text which says focus your brand. So I Don't explain, and that's the other thing. Don't explain what you do. Because the minute you explain it, you're selling and you're trying to convince someone. If I'm an expert in something, I can just say I make fuzzy clear. I don't explain to you how I do it. That's my process. Once we're you're a client, you'll see it, and I'll I'll be explaining it to you, and we'll walk through the whole process. But when you're, you know, remember LinkedIn. Oh, the other thing, this is the other thing I need to explain to you why this is so important. People spend no more than seven seconds at the top of your profile before they before they decide whether to keep scrolling. So in my experience, people tend to overthink their banner. Um, and that translates into throw everything into it, lots of information. You know, people who are speakers, and I've I've worked with a lot of speakers, you know, they've got all these pictures of them speaking, but you can't actually see them. It's just a bunch of people, and there's arms and weird things going on, and dogs that are sticking into the picture. There you go. So, and and when they put a lot of information or focusing on them, again, why would you put your logo in your banner when your logo is already right below it? Because you need to say where you work, and if you have a logo, it shows up anyway, right? Again, and I know this is gonna sound really counterintuitive. It is not about you. I know this sounds so I this took me a long time, believe me, to really kind of understand that. It is not about you, it is about what people get from working with you.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yeah, I love it. That's great advice, and it's very valuable real estate. Like you said, seven seconds is not a lot of time. Um, and there's a lot to be done. It's more like five, really. Yeah, but yeah. We are goldfish, right? We are goldfish, right? The attention span.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Actually, no, the attention span of a goldfish is nine seconds. So we're worse than goldfish. And in 2000, which is when I started my consulting practice, the average human attention span was 12 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure it's only getting shorter. I have children now. Eight seconds is what it says, but really it's more like you know, five to six seconds. And the the reason that's important is when you're giving your elevator pitch, if you go over eight seconds, you've already lost me. So think about no more than your elevator pitch should not be more than 15 seconds. Your headline should take me literally two seconds to read. Two to three seconds.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Wow. Yeah, that's great. That's great advice. Awesome. I know everybody's getting ready. Just add it to your to-do list, friends. You don't have to multitask now. Make those updates later. All right. Many of our members are navigating dual identities, they're employed somewhere and building their own brand or consist consultancy. How do they clarify and communicate both without confusing their audience?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

I I think that actually it's the wrong question to ask. Um, in the sense that um if you're working somewhere full-time, you cannot use your LinkedIn. Your LinkedIn profile is a public profile. Yeah. So that means that your boss will see it. Which means that you want to be really careful here because the goal then becomes more about focusing on focusing on pulling a common trait that can be both what you bring to the company and what you bring to clients. And so that way you can showcase your ability to be, let's say, a leader, a negotiator, whatever it is. And that can be your headline, and there could be an image, something around that. But once you fully transition into your consulting practice, now you can showcase the same qualities in a win for a client. So the the qualities, your zone of gs, whatever you're bringing to your job is probably what's going to make you really good at what you do when you open your own practice.

Fix The Headshot, Headline, Banner

SPEAKER_02 26:00

That's fantastic advice. And that makes a lot of sense too. I think there's something to be said for character and consistency as well. So if you are currently working full-time, like having some of those traits, values, and a genius that you bring into your existing full-time job, you know, making sure that there's, like you said, that kind of golden thread, that through line, all of a sudden starts to build that trust as you go off onto your own and build your clients because people are like, oh yeah, I've always known her for this, even if I was working with her before, and now that's what I can expect that she'll bring in the future.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

And don't forget that when you start your consulting practice, the people you worked with or your company could become a client. So you you're kind of straddling, right? That but I would I would err on the side of really focusing more on what you bring as opposed to trying to build your your consulting practice kind of on the side. There is no on the side because everything, there's everything is transparent now.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

So yeah, 100%. All right, let's see. Uh you've worked with women specifically around entrepreneurship. Is there something unique about how women tend to underposition themselves and you know what mindset shifts might help change that? We kind of touched on this earlier, but just to dig on this one a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm I know we're gonna talk about my new book, but I interviewed 44 women founders, you know, across the country, parts of the world, across just about every industry. And it's the same thing over and over again, right? It's that it starts with the social conditioning that teaches women to be less assertive and the relationship that we learn about money through our family. In fact, many of the women I interviewed mentioned that they never learned about money or being taught the importance of negotiating a salary, okay? Even right, I mean, men they just do that instinctively because they're taught about money. And somehow we don't we don't teach our girls this, and this is a huge, a huge problem. And so the mindset starts with oh, you know, I'm not that experienced, I don't know that much, so how can I call myself an expert? And it accounts for why so many women consistently undercharge for their services. So for me, you know, it's also the the piece that's really important is the connection between how we think about what we offer and how we charge for it. And one of the things that I have learned is um, by the way, brain science also comes into play here. And you know, again, in during my research, I looked into brain science. It turns out the female brains are slightly, not not a lot, but they're slightly more empathic than male brains. What that means is we're constantly thinking about how is this impacting someone else? And when it comes to pricing, we we tend to think this way. So let me give you an example. So men tend to charge high and they settle for a price they can live with. Women charge less and they lower their price to a price that someone they think someone will pay. Very, very different. Instead, what I you know, what I remind people all the time, remind women all the time, is think of the woman that comes after you. If I'm undercharging, it makes it harder for the next woman to charge what she's worth. So you're actually not helping women, you're hurting women as a whole. And also, if you're undercharging and you're not really charging what you're worth, that also it also means that maybe you can't pay your bills. How are you helping people? Right? Like just if somebody can't afford you, they're not ready for you. That doesn't mean you have to lower your price. What you need to do is say, well, when you are ready, I'd love to work with you. The way to change the mindset, and I heard I've heard that I've done this, and I've heard it for every almost every woman I interviewed, hire a business coach. This is the best advice I can give your listeners. Hire a business coach. It is the best way and potentially the only way to truly shift your mindset. And I have lots of examples of that in the book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

I mean, I would say too, just talking about what you're charging openly with other people that you trust. Um, within Together Digital, a lot of our business owners they talk about the pricing and what they do. In fact, one of our members had shared with me her proposal to do a magazine spread and cover. And I looked at it and I was like, you you need to charge twice this. And she's like, Oh, I can't do that. I don't think that's what they can afford. I said, What does it cost for you to do it? What is the what is the price of the value that you're bringing to this magazine, right? And she's like, Yeah. And I said, the worst they'll do is tell you no. And then you just bring the price down if you can, but don't undercharge.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Can I give you an example?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Can I give you an example? Please, yeah. I worked with a client who was woefully undercharging, woefully undercharged. She had a year-long contract with this company. After we worked together, um, I do I do some coaching. I mean, that's not the bulk of my business, but once we talk about value, it's kind of a natural conversation. And she literally went to them when they were looking to um to hire her for another year, and she doubled her price and they did not blink. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

That's exactly what happened with this member, too. She went back and asked for double of what she initially sent to me and they didn't even bat an eyelash.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

You know, ask for the no, honestly, it sucks. But it's like, I think we think, like you said, we're kind of empathetically pricing versus value pricing. Yes. And you're gonna be surprised. You're gonna be surprised. And like you said, if if for some reason, you know, even if your like shock awe kind of sticker price for you is scary, um, if they're not ready, they're not ready. Because you're gonna resent clients that are underpaying you. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

You know, I had one of the women I interviewed said, uh, come up with a price and say it out loud and do it without giggling, and then you know that you can say that price. But you have to you have to say it like you mean it. You can't just say, well, I think or maybe or what do you think? No. Stand firm. Part of our job, I think, is to start to stand in that in that zone, right? In the power, and to say, This I know I'm worth it. And by the way, when you think about pricing, it's and I and this is especially true because I do a lot of public speaking. So when I think about speaking, if I'm being hired for an hour, they're not just getting an hour, they're getting, you know, 30 years of experience, right? 20 years of speaking, uh, uh an author, right? I mean, and then you think about how about the education and it what it cost me to get to this level, to get my MBA to, I mean, so you need to be thinking much more holistically and not just this one thing. And also the last thing I want to say is this, and this is especially true in the design world, where you know, people don't even what they don't understand what it means to do a magazine cover, they don't know how much work goes into that. So part of your job is to educate your clients because the best clients are educated clients. And when I was doing, when I had my design and marketing communications firm, that's what I would do. I would start by educating people and explaining to them. So by the time we talked about price, they expected it to be expensive because they understood what went into it. Yep, I love it.

Write A Headline That Converts

SPEAKER_02 33:14

That's great advice. All right, your upcoming book called Why Not Me is such a powerful question. What inspired it and what do you want women to walk away with believing after they read it?

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Uh, you know, I I it's actually I I have to give uh give props here for the one of the women I interviewed was actually one of my early interviews. And she said to me, you know, as we were talking, she said, I used to constantly ask myself, why me? Why me? And finally I said, Why not me? And she's now a top LinkedIn voice in the UK. She's from Northern Ireland, she's met the king, she's been a guest to 10 Downing Street. I mean, this woman is like amazing. And by the way, when she started her business, she had a full-time job and three children under the age of 10.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Wow, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah. I could I could we could have a whole other conversation about how much women take on and how much they're able to do and how remarkable it is that they accomplish what they do. We are pretty badass. We really are. I know. I hate to sound, I don't mean to sound like men are not, you know, this is not an anti-men thing at all. Um, also, when I when I um when I had interviewed this woman, it reminded me that when I was writing my first book, Ready Launch Brand, I asked myself the same thing. Why me? Who am I? What how what do I know about all this? And then I remembered that I come from literally generations of entrepreneurs that I've been an entrepreneur my entire career, that I've worked with hundreds of founders to help them integrate marketing into their business. And then that's when I started saying, why not me? And with this book, I will tell you, I've never once asked myself why me. And that I think of that as progress.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

That's fantastic. I love it. I think to me, it's really speaking to the depths of the limiting beliefs that we have within ourselves. And it's like, how many times a day do you stop yourself? How are you your biggest roadblock? You know?

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah. That's where a coach helps with that too. Yeah. I can't, I can't, I cannot endorse coach business coaches enough because I've worked with several coaches, and I have to tell you, it's like you just need to be reminded every once in a while, like, you know, we've got this.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah. And I think that too, like coaches, community, peers, you know, things like that are so, so important to surround yourself with. Um, you've taught at Horton, Drexel, and Penn and Jefferson. When you're working with women in academic versus the real world business settings, what are the gaps that you're seeing between what they know and how they show up?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

So you kind of alluded to it just now. Women are great at building networks. We're like, we that's the superpower I think that every woman has. Great at building network and also very collaborative. So learning and succeeding, especially in an academic set setting, it's a group effort. And I actually taught an entrepreneurship class, two female students, and every one of them worked together so that they could all succeed. And that's really appreciated and it's rewarded in academia. Unfortunately, that mindset is discouraged in most business settings, where winning is prize over building networks and lifting others. It's not about lifting others, it's about getting ahead. That's uh, and you know, again, I don't want to get into male-female thinking, but you know, a lot of these corporations, you know, that's where the male energy is winning, and the female energy is more about collaboration and building networks. And of course, there's also the bias that men can speak up and be decisive while women are expected to play a supportive role, which you've already mentioned. And of course, we've all experienced what happens when a woman speaks up during meetings and a man says the exact same thing that she just said, and he's rewarded for that. And the woman is like sitting there going, but I just said the same thing. Um, I think as more what I'm excited about as more women build businesses, that mindset is starting to shift.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

And in fact, you know, if you look at the numbers, the numbers are pretty uh pretty uh interesting. Um, in 2019, 29% of new businesses were launched by women. Today that number is somewhere around 50%. Amazing. That makes me happy to hear. I love it. It's part of the reason why I started to focus more on women after the fact of the pandemic.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

You're like growing market strategy, baby.

Banners That Invite The Scroll

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Outlet of the passion, of course. Well, obviously, but but you know, what I find so interesting is that you know, when I taught these women, I do are you familiar with Amy Cuddy and the and the um she she taught at Harvard in Harvard Business School, and she teaches the warrior pose, you know, where you put your hands up, right? And apparently she did this with students, and when you do the power and you do it only for two minutes before a big test or a big meeting, or in fact, I do it before every conversation that I have. Yeah, it gets you focused. And here's the crazy thing. So I when I was teaching um at Drexel, it was mostly a mostly male uh student body in this class, and when I mentioned the Amy Cuddy pose, one young man raised his hand kind of like shyly and said, If I do the power pose, does that mean that someone can take my power away? Oh, interesting. Now, when I taught it in the all women group, they when they all at the end of the semester when they were doing their presentation, they formed a circle and they did the power pose together.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

I love it. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Yeah, it's really interesting. It still like makes me tear up when I think about it. It's so amazing. I mean, they you know, because at the end of the day, and again, I don't know this empathy piece, you know, but you know, at least in academia, what I see is women really wanting to support other women.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

I think that shift's happening, and I hope it continues to. It's one of those things it's like I get all women are not all for all women, and some of it has to do with internalized patriarchy and societal constructs and you know, the scarcity mindset of having less women in power, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

But that's the changing, yeah. It is changing. Slowly, slowly, but it is changing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

And it's like you can't expect it to change all around unless we start to learn how to embrace one another. So I love that you're seeing that at the academic level. That tells me that that next generation is really starting to see that, you know, as an opportunity, as a strength, you know, the collaboration versus the competition.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Because you know what, it is a strength. And in fact, women-led companies are more successful, and it has actually been shown. Data literally supports this. Yeah. That if you invest in a woman-owned business the same level as a male-owned business, you will get a 30% higher return on your investment.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Which is just wild because it's like those aren't even odds. That's just like statistics, like you said. But then women only get 2% of venture capital funding. Exactly. You guys are missing out, folks. You're missing out on some money.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

You're really saying if you're looking about, if you're looking at this strictly from uh from an ROI standpoint, you should be investing in every single woman on company because they're gonna, they're gonna bring it back.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah, they're gonna bring it back. I agree. Awesome. All right, so you've taught, oh wait, I think I read that one already. Yep. If you if someone's listening right now, could do one thing today to make their LinkedIn profile clear or magnetic. What would you tell them to do first?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Um, I would I would say um make sure you have a headline that sums up in one sentence what you do, who you serve, and what you get, what they get. And stay away from generic terms like coach, consultant, and acronyms. Stay away from all that. Don't explain your process or list your accomplishments. Uh what people want to know is not just what people what your clients get from you, but I want you to start thinking about this as transformation, not explanation.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Oh, I love that. Transformation, not explanation. That's a good note to take, too. Oh, fantastic. Well, live listening audience, if you all have any questions, you can throw them down into the chat for Orly. I'm going to go ahead and move on, though, into our power round, um, which is kind of our rapid fire questions to kind of get ready to wrap up our session. So, uh, what is one word you wish more women use to describe themselves professionally? Expert. Ooh, good one. Yes. Finish the sentence.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Fuzzy messaging is costing women clients and lost revenue because their prospects don't understand the value they offer.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

I love it. So helpful. What is the most memorable light bulb moment you've witnessed about a client?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Ah, yeah, this is a great story. So I recently worked with a client to rebrand her LinkedIn profile. And uh, she was uh having trouble identifying her ideal clients. And as she was explaining her process as a fractional recruiter, she talked about building teams and aligning hires with the company culture. Her light bulb moment came when she realized that her target market was startups, because that's where she brings the most value. And incidentally, the number two reason that startups fail is because they have the wrong team.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yes, oh my gosh. And hiring is so critical within startups.

Balancing Day Job And Personal Brand

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Exactly. But she was thinking, like, oh, I need to again, because there's that mindset of, oh, I'm missing, I'm leaving people out. But the truth is now that she's focused on startups, VCs, venture capitalists are now a potential revenue stream because they found startups. That's awesome. And now her new headline is building teams that build startup culture. Oh, that's fantastic. Good for her. Way to go. Good for you and her. Yeah, I mean, it it was it was really amazing, you know, just to see that light bulb moment, I think it's part of what, you know, why I'm so passionate about this because the shift is like it's like magical, you know, like all of a sudden, and now, you know, instead of just calling herself a recruiter, she calls herself a culture catalyst.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Love it. That's fantastic. A culture catalyst. Yeah, that's that's definitely a good example of how you can take that language and just take it to the next level, which um actually makes me think to note to our members, especially that are listening. Um, this is so perfect that we talked about this today. We just did a masterclass on turning conversations into clients. And we talked a lot about with um with our facilitator, Quinn, about using luxury language in really not just kind of going to the default, but really owning what you do in the nuanced way that sounds and feels as premium as it really should be. So that's such a good complimentary listen. Um So after you finish this podcast numbers, jump into Slack and see if you can find and snag that in the masterclasses channel, that link for the playback. All right. One more question I've got for you in the power round is what is the best piece of advice for a woman who keeps saying, I'm still figuring out how to explain what I do.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Well, first of all, stop trying to do that. Ask your clients and your colleagues who know you and understand what you do, not your aunt, you know, on your father's side who sees you once a year. No, not that person. I'm talking about colleagues and clients who've actually worked with you. Remember, we don't have all the answers. It's exhausting trying to figure it out on your own. And by the way, this is something that we as women, which is it's so amazing to me that we're constantly thinking, like, well, we should know this. Nobody knows all of this. No. You don't know everything when you walk in. I mean, the whole point of being an entrepreneur is you figure it out as you go along. Yes. And that's where your network comes in. And remember, I said, you know, women are just champions at building networks. There are at least five people in your network right now who can give you that answer.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

My tagline, just so you know, my tagline, Facilitative Lightbulb Moments, it came from a colleague who had been working with me for years. And she said to me one day, Orly, I know what you do. You're a facilitator of light bulb moments. I'm like, and I had my own light bulb moments. I'm like, what can I say that? You know, and this is like I think I started saying that maybe like 10 years ago. So you know it.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

And it's stuck and it stayed and it's working. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

We're in the jar and we can't see it. We just can't see the label.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

It's a good, it's a good reminder that we don't have to do it all and we don't have to do it alone. And creativity does not work in a vacuum. Get outside the jar.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Get outside the jar. And remember, it is not a weakness. Right? I hear I heard this from a lot of women I spoke with. It's like, no, you don't know because we don't know what we don't know. And experience, I mean, there are people out there. This is why I think sometimes having having a board of advisors is a good idea because you have people to bounce things off of. Yep. You know, joining a master class, going, I mean, I'm part of I'm part of a cohort right now, you know, because again, and I've been doing this a long time, but you need perspective, and you can't have perspective inside your own head. And so I'm here to tell every woman listening, it's okay. You don't need to have all the answers.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah. I mean, that's our motto with Together Digital is ask, give, grow. And it's a really big emphasis on the ask. It's it's a muscle you have to learn how to build to know even a lot of times. We'll wrap up um an in-person or virtual peer group or an event, even our conference with our ask and give exchange. And you'll ask women, what do you need? How can I help? And it's just deer and headlights. And it's not that they don't have a million things they couldn't use help with. It's just, it's really hard to be like, okay, this is what I need specifically, and this is what I would hand off and or delegate because we're just not used to it. And so it is a muscle you have to build. So we're constantly asking them to ask so that it becomes more comfortable over time.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

And don't forget that people love being asked.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

They do, they want to help.

Pricing, Mindset, And Money Myths

SPEAKER_00 47:16

It's actually a gift, it's a gift. I mean, you know, you're not asking them for money, you're not asking to buy something, you're just asking for that your opinion. Who doesn't like sharing their opinions?

SPEAKER_02 47:26

That's good. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yes. And so think of it more about it's a it's a gift that keeps giving. Right?

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Yeah, don't deprive them.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Exactly. And also then you're modeling this for other women. You know, um, I think the one one of the things I've started doing because I do a lot of networking is before I get into the room, I think about you know, what is the one thing that I can ask and what is one thing I can offer.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

I love it. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Really, I feel like, you know, this is part of our our superpower as women, is we're really good at connecting other people.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yeah. Yeah. It's a blast. It's a lot of fun. I love seeing what happens when people get connected. So this has been fantastic, Orley. Thank you so much. Very valuable conversation. Thank you. Um, I dropped into the chat, we'll include it in the show notes. If you all are curious on ways to connect with Orly, she also has a clear to fuzzy process. It's a free monthly webinar called the Clarity Hour. The link for that is in the chat. So make sure you grab that before we jump off. Also, it'll be in the show notes, as well as her LinkedIn, her website, her YouTube, her handles. So anything and everything that you need to connect with and get more Orly time is there for you. Uh, thank you for everyone who's listening. Uh he's listening after the recording. Orly, thank you again so much. This has been a blast.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Oh, thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation. So um, yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Oh, absolutely. My pleasure. And folks, for who those who are still listening, if you're not yet a part of Together Digital, come and join us together in digital.com or a community of women in digital who show up for each other. And we would love to have you because again, more more people, more power um to share among us all. So until next time, everyone, we hope to see you again soon. And until then, keep asking, keep giving, and keep growing. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

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